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It wasn't clear in the original comment but the paper that the high school student did was not supposed to be written by the parent or receive assistance from

It wasn't clear in the original comment but the paper that the high school student did was not supposed to be written by the parent or receive assistance from the parent in any form. The student was in high school!

labster 8y ago
I've never had assignments that were supposed to have parental assistance after preschool, yet many of them needed it to get a non-failing grade. Perhaps 1% of middle school kids can do a science fair project on their own with all the research tracking and results board and all. But still if you failed that, you failed the class. Utterly ridiculous. Kids that age should be exploring and apprenticing, not coming up with original research. Not implying there aren't exceptional students, but they are exceptions. And for everyone else, we train them to be good factory workers for the disappearing industries of America. The one thing we all agree on is that the system is broken.
- vanviegen 8y ago
  So which is it? Are we asking middle school kids to come up with original research, or are we training them to be good factory workers? These statements seem to point in exact opposite directions.
  - labster 8y ago
    Unfortunately, both. We ask kids to be on time, every day, sit orderly in their seats. Don't talk to neighbors, you're supposed to be at your job or learning. Collaboration is only allowed when authorized. Looking up information is only allowed when authorized. Any disruption is grounds for punishment, too many notices is grounds for dismissal, er, expulsion. And then these same kids are sent home and asked to complete creative work, as if we had been training them for a creative job all along. We do not do this, but we expect the results nonetheless. And teachers pat themselves on the back for letting their students "get creative" while upholding the authoritarian system 99% of the time -- which they have to do, because it's their jobs on the line. So no, those statements are not contradictory.
    - wallflower 8y ago
      Another comment mentioned John Taylor Gatto. If you are not yet familiar with his writings, check then out. http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html
    - vanviegen 8y ago
      Great explanation, thanks!

labster 8y ago

I've never had assignments that were supposed to have parental assistance after preschool, yet many of them needed it to get a non-failing grade. Perhaps 1% of middle school kids can do a science fair project on their own with all the research tracking and results board and all. But still if you failed that, you failed the class. Utterly ridiculous. Kids that age should be exploring and apprenticing, not coming up with original research. Not implying there aren't exceptional students, but they are exceptions. And for everyone else, we train them to be good factory workers for the disappearing industries of America. The one thing we all agree on is that the system is broken.

vanviegen 8y ago
So which is it? Are we asking middle school kids to come up with original research, or are we training them to be good factory workers? These statements seem to point in exact opposite directions.
- labster 8y ago
  Unfortunately, both. We ask kids to be on time, every day, sit orderly in their seats. Don't talk to neighbors, you're supposed to be at your job or learning. Collaboration is only allowed when authorized. Looking up information is only allowed when authorized. Any disruption is grounds for punishment, too many notices is grounds for dismissal, er, expulsion. And then these same kids are sent home and asked to complete creative work, as if we had been training them for a creative job all along. We do not do this, but we expect the results nonetheless. And teachers pat themselves on the back for letting their students "get creative" while upholding the authoritarian system 99% of the time -- which they have to do, because it's their jobs on the line. So no, those statements are not contradictory.
  - wallflower 8y ago
    Another comment mentioned John Taylor Gatto. If you are not yet familiar with his writings, check then out. http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html
  - vanviegen 8y ago
    Great explanation, thanks!