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Oracle is the Borg: Enterprise Software Development Will Be Assimilated

51 points by gherlein 16y ago

carson 16y ago
I think people often forget that Oracle also owns Peoplsoft, another big enterprise play.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- pandakar 16y ago
  I am unfortunately reminded of this every workday. The money spent on licences and inept consultants is obscene. The tools are ancient, the code unreadable, modules grafted on after various other companies were bought. I often get told how much money there is to be made in consulting, and alternatively how one can never learn all of Peoplesoft. As much as the former is comforting, the latter is depressing. I just want to be able to code in emacs for a living...
w1ntermute 16y ago
Any chance of getting a copy of the text? Site is down and neither Google nor Coral have it.
- megamark16 16y ago
  Here you go. Oracle is the Borg: Enterprise Software Development Will Be Assimilated By gherlein, on November 6th, 2010 - No comments Oracle made some moves this week that look like the opening pawn moves in a master chess game. The end game will have Oracle having a controlling position in every aspect of Enterprise software development. First of all, Oracle has removed InnoDB from the MySQL Classic Edition. Now, you can still get the GPL community edition that has InnoDB in it. But if you want support, you’ll have to buy their version. Oh, and they just raised the price on that. I’m not sure if they require it or not, but if you use Linux Oracle prefers that you run their software on THEIR version of Linux – a customized Red Hat. This week they also released plans for the JVM that will include a free version and a premium paid version. Oh, and if you want some new hardware that will really make it all work well together, they can sell you that too (they bought Sun, remember?). So it’s pretty clear to me that Oracle is playing for keeps, and playing to own the Enterprise space. Want to use a database? Buy Oracle, or use MySQL… but if you want support, you pay them. Then you pay them for Linux. Then license the JVM. Then license the app server (they bought BEA last year, so WebLogic is all theirs now too). Want to code in Java? Well, they own that too. Business folks call this “owning the vertical.” Watch for them to take even more steps to make sure that they have control points around as many places they can. Nearly all software that gets written is business application software. Clearly Oracle has been embedded firmly there for a long time – but these moves are enveloping and will sink hooks into so many more places. I predict that when Google and Oracle settle – and they will eventually, since the cost to litigate a huge patent battle does no good for either party – that Oracle will get some hooks into mobile as well. Maybe some email integration, or provisioning, or something deep and fundamental. So watch out, stay alert, and think about your tools. Or you too will be assimilated.
VengefulCynic 16y ago
So it’s pretty clear to me that Oracle is playing for keeps, and playing to own the Enterprise space. It's not like Oracle's behavior with MySQL and Java is something new for them. Larry Ellison has always been a guy who buys a company, streamlines their processes, figures out a way to squeeze every last cent out of their products and then hires 1,000 new sales reps to sell it to enterprise customers. More than anything, I'm puzzled that it took this long and I'm puzzled that this hits anyone as something unexpected.
greenlblue 16y ago
Ah yes, capitalism at its best.
KevBurnsJr 16y ago
YAY! Oracle is going to drive MySQL into the ground! Thank god. I'm getting really tired of cleaning up relational disasters.
- SkyMarshal 16y ago
  Unfortunately there are plenty of alternatives for relational-ignorant developers to abuse. I wouldn't break out the champagne just yet.
- spudlyo 16y ago
  This is wishful thinking on your part. I know it's cool to hate on MySQL, but it's too big now for Oracle to kill. It has too large of an installed base, too much mindshare, and too strong of a community to be killed by anything Oracle does. If Oracle were to stop developing, supporting, and licensing MySQL today it would not stop MySQL. There would still be Percona, Facebook, Google, Monty Program, Drizzle, and a large ecosystem of others supporting, patching, releasing, and blogging about it. Love it or hate it, it's probably not going anywhere soon.
  - jijoy 16y ago
    They wont kill it . They will increase the price of it. That will make MySQL to less popular for sure .
    - spudlyo 16y ago
      I don't think so. In my experience, the only folks who pay for MySQL are big conservative companies who must have support contracts, and companies who bundle MySQL with their closed source products. My gut feeling is that folks who will be directly impacted by Oracle price increases represent a tiny percentage of MySQL users.
- noodle 16y ago
  >I'm getting really tired of cleaning up relational disasters. mysql dying won't fix that. i've seen plenty of disasters in other databases.
j_baker 16y ago
...because there are no other database vendors out there. There's definitely no such thing as Postgres, SQL Server, or DB2.
- regularfry 16y ago
  That would be to completely underestimate Oracle. It's not just about databases any more. They now own two major database platforms, a major software deployment ecosystem, a decent OS or two and a decent hardware platform. You can bet that they'll be integrating and up-selling the rest of the stack like crazy into any customer of any single part of it. It just doesn't make sense to have bought them otherwise. The comparison shouldn't be with DB2. It should be with IBM.
  - Goladus 16y ago
    They also just bought ATG, an enterprise commerce company: http://www.atg.com/oracle/index.jsp http://www.atg.com/oracle/index.jsp
  - j_baker 16y ago
    Regardless, the point is that Oracle isn't without competition. IBM and Microsoft aren't going away anytime soon.
leandrod 16y ago
Ðe irony… : Error establishing a database connection
fiveo 16y ago
I'm actually flirting to move to everything Oracle for my career (seriously). There's a big money and (hopefully) less work for those who know how to use 10% of Oracle's other software aside from their database. Now I can go home by 5 and have a side project/job on the evening and weekend using Emacs, Ruby, Rails, and jQuery. I'll be set for the next 10 years!
- fauigerzigerk 16y ago
  I prefer to spend 100% of my time on benefiting from the growing gap left between the Oracles, Microsofts and SAPs on one end and the integrate a bunch of FOSS approach on the other. I think there is room for simple, value for money, intelligent, low maintainance software, even in the enterprise.
  - fiveo 16y ago
    If I could lead an internal project with the said solution, I'll go for it. I'm a FOSS lover. Keep in mind that not all internal projects require a custom write from scratch solution. Some would do fine with customizing Oracle modules.
- tom_b 16y ago
  Careful. What you say is somewhat true. But that side project/job doing what you really love is going to be increasingly starved for time. You may want to have a family or friends or hike or read or learn to play piano at some point. You'll be stuck with a somewhat non-enjoyable day job where much of the focus is on Oracle's tool stack. That said, I completely poked my head-up after grad school, saw that there was some demand for skills that started with the "Oracle" adjective, and have found reasonably stable and lucrative work in those spaces. I've also been able to move to a more open shop, where I've been able to sneak in some RoR and am currently hacking some Lisp to do, of all things, some ETL/data transformation stuff to make my life a little easier. My bigger issue is that if you position yourself as the Oracle stack expert is that you may windup stuck in that professionally. I laughed when I read it, but I remember PG saying something about never being worried about competitors to Viaweb who advertised for Oracle programmers. It's a bit of an exaggeration, but the hackers I respect the most have been somewhat disappointed in their corporate "big IT" careers.
adulau 16y ago
This is a recurring pattern in history of "enterprise software" (for whatever it means) the fade of technologies and the high-cost of maintainability for those legacy systems. This is a common business model in the software (or hardware) sold to large corporation. Usually the customer wants just something that works for their business and don't always understand the implication on relying on their ancient systems. And by extension, those large corporation just paid (a lot) for maintaining the legacy system up and (somehow) running... As mentioned in another comment, this is allowing some space for better designed software where the large corporation can't find something versatile enough. The history in software is just a circular loop with a feedback input (where the innovation is coming from other companies or individuals). Oracle is only playing on the field of legacy systems to maintain. At the end, this is great for start-ups, free software developers or individuals who are innovating. For us, this is a brand new world opens with plenty of opportunities...
- regularfry 16y ago
  You could look at their JVM play and continued MySQL Community Edition development (presuming that happens) as giving them a foothold in the non-legacy fields; there's a lot of fun stuff happening on the JVM these days, and MySQL is still (for better or worse) the default first open source RDBMS that people tend to use for new projects. Whether they see it that way or not is a completely different matter.
binarymax 16y ago
...so how long now before Oracle makes a bid for Red Hat?

51 points by gherlein 16y ago

carson 16y ago

I think people often forget that Oracle also owns Peoplsoft, another big enterprise play.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
pandakar 16y ago
I am unfortunately reminded of this every workday. The money spent on licences and inept consultants is obscene. The tools are ancient, the code unreadable, modules grafted on after various other companies were bought. I often get told how much money there is to be made in consulting, and alternatively how one can never learn all of Peoplesoft. As much as the former is comforting, the latter is depressing. I just want to be able to code in emacs for a living...

w1ntermute 16y ago

Any chance of getting a copy of the text? Site is down and neither Google nor Coral have it.

megamark16 16y ago
Here you go. Oracle is the Borg: Enterprise Software Development Will Be Assimilated By gherlein, on November 6th, 2010 - No comments Oracle made some moves this week that look like the opening pawn moves in a master chess game. The end game will have Oracle having a controlling position in every aspect of Enterprise software development. First of all, Oracle has removed InnoDB from the MySQL Classic Edition. Now, you can still get the GPL community edition that has InnoDB in it. But if you want support, you’ll have to buy their version. Oh, and they just raised the price on that. I’m not sure if they require it or not, but if you use Linux Oracle prefers that you run their software on THEIR version of Linux – a customized Red Hat. This week they also released plans for the JVM that will include a free version and a premium paid version. Oh, and if you want some new hardware that will really make it all work well together, they can sell you that too (they bought Sun, remember?). So it’s pretty clear to me that Oracle is playing for keeps, and playing to own the Enterprise space. Want to use a database? Buy Oracle, or use MySQL… but if you want support, you pay them. Then you pay them for Linux. Then license the JVM. Then license the app server (they bought BEA last year, so WebLogic is all theirs now too). Want to code in Java? Well, they own that too. Business folks call this “owning the vertical.” Watch for them to take even more steps to make sure that they have control points around as many places they can. Nearly all software that gets written is business application software. Clearly Oracle has been embedded firmly there for a long time – but these moves are enveloping and will sink hooks into so many more places. I predict that when Google and Oracle settle – and they will eventually, since the cost to litigate a huge patent battle does no good for either party – that Oracle will get some hooks into mobile as well. Maybe some email integration, or provisioning, or something deep and fundamental. So watch out, stay alert, and think about your tools. Or you too will be assimilated.

VengefulCynic 16y ago

So it’s pretty clear to me that Oracle is playing for keeps, and playing to own the Enterprise space. It's not like Oracle's behavior with MySQL and Java is something new for them. Larry Ellison has always been a guy who buys a company, streamlines their processes, figures out a way to squeeze every last cent out of their products and then hires 1,000 new sales reps to sell it to enterprise customers. More than anything, I'm puzzled that it took this long and I'm puzzled that this hits anyone as something unexpected.

greenlblue 16y ago

Ah yes, capitalism at its best.

KevBurnsJr 16y ago

YAY! Oracle is going to drive MySQL into the ground! Thank god. I'm getting really tired of cleaning up relational disasters.

SkyMarshal 16y ago
Unfortunately there are plenty of alternatives for relational-ignorant developers to abuse. I wouldn't break out the champagne just yet.
spudlyo 16y ago
This is wishful thinking on your part. I know it's cool to hate on MySQL, but it's too big now for Oracle to kill. It has too large of an installed base, too much mindshare, and too strong of a community to be killed by anything Oracle does. If Oracle were to stop developing, supporting, and licensing MySQL today it would not stop MySQL. There would still be Percona, Facebook, Google, Monty Program, Drizzle, and a large ecosystem of others supporting, patching, releasing, and blogging about it. Love it or hate it, it's probably not going anywhere soon.
- jijoy 16y ago
  They wont kill it . They will increase the price of it. That will make MySQL to less popular for sure .
  - spudlyo 16y ago
    I don't think so. In my experience, the only folks who pay for MySQL are big conservative companies who must have support contracts, and companies who bundle MySQL with their closed source products. My gut feeling is that folks who will be directly impacted by Oracle price increases represent a tiny percentage of MySQL users.
noodle 16y ago
>I'm getting really tired of cleaning up relational disasters. mysql dying won't fix that. i've seen plenty of disasters in other databases.

j_baker 16y ago

...because there are no other database vendors out there. There's definitely no such thing as Postgres, SQL Server, or DB2.

regularfry 16y ago
That would be to completely underestimate Oracle. It's not just about databases any more. They now own two major database platforms, a major software deployment ecosystem, a decent OS or two and a decent hardware platform. You can bet that they'll be integrating and up-selling the rest of the stack like crazy into any customer of any single part of it. It just doesn't make sense to have bought them otherwise. The comparison shouldn't be with DB2. It should be with IBM.
- Goladus 16y ago
  They also just bought ATG, an enterprise commerce company: http://www.atg.com/oracle/index.jsp http://www.atg.com/oracle/index.jsp
- j_baker 16y ago
  Regardless, the point is that Oracle isn't without competition. IBM and Microsoft aren't going away anytime soon.

leandrod 16y ago

Ðe irony… : Error establishing a database connection

fiveo 16y ago

I'm actually flirting to move to everything Oracle for my career (seriously). There's a big money and (hopefully) less work for those who know how to use 10% of Oracle's other software aside from their database. Now I can go home by 5 and have a side project/job on the evening and weekend using Emacs, Ruby, Rails, and jQuery. I'll be set for the next 10 years!

fauigerzigerk 16y ago
I prefer to spend 100% of my time on benefiting from the growing gap left between the Oracles, Microsofts and SAPs on one end and the integrate a bunch of FOSS approach on the other. I think there is room for simple, value for money, intelligent, low maintainance software, even in the enterprise.
- fiveo 16y ago
  If I could lead an internal project with the said solution, I'll go for it. I'm a FOSS lover. Keep in mind that not all internal projects require a custom write from scratch solution. Some would do fine with customizing Oracle modules.
tom_b 16y ago
Careful. What you say is somewhat true. But that side project/job doing what you really love is going to be increasingly starved for time. You may want to have a family or friends or hike or read or learn to play piano at some point. You'll be stuck with a somewhat non-enjoyable day job where much of the focus is on Oracle's tool stack. That said, I completely poked my head-up after grad school, saw that there was some demand for skills that started with the "Oracle" adjective, and have found reasonably stable and lucrative work in those spaces. I've also been able to move to a more open shop, where I've been able to sneak in some RoR and am currently hacking some Lisp to do, of all things, some ETL/data transformation stuff to make my life a little easier. My bigger issue is that if you position yourself as the Oracle stack expert is that you may windup stuck in that professionally. I laughed when I read it, but I remember PG saying something about never being worried about competitors to Viaweb who advertised for Oracle programmers. It's a bit of an exaggeration, but the hackers I respect the most have been somewhat disappointed in their corporate "big IT" careers.

adulau 16y ago

This is a recurring pattern in history of "enterprise software" (for whatever it means) the fade of technologies and the high-cost of maintainability for those legacy systems. This is a common business model in the software (or hardware) sold to large corporation. Usually the customer wants just something that works for their business and don't always understand the implication on relying on their ancient systems. And by extension, those large corporation just paid (a lot) for maintaining the legacy system up and (somehow) running... As mentioned in another comment, this is allowing some space for better designed software where the large corporation can't find something versatile enough. The history in software is just a circular loop with a feedback input (where the innovation is coming from other companies or individuals). Oracle is only playing on the field of legacy systems to maintain. At the end, this is great for start-ups, free software developers or individuals who are innovating. For us, this is a brand new world opens with plenty of opportunities...

regularfry 16y ago
You could look at their JVM play and continued MySQL Community Edition development (presuming that happens) as giving them a foothold in the non-legacy fields; there's a lot of fun stuff happening on the JVM these days, and MySQL is still (for better or worse) the default first open source RDBMS that people tend to use for new projects. Whether they see it that way or not is a completely different matter.

binarymax 16y ago

...so how long now before Oracle makes a bid for Red Hat?