6 ms·

My entire family are teachers (Mum, Dad, Sister, Brother), and have all had to deal with this to varying degrees, and have had it consume their lives at various

by grecy 8y ago

My entire family are teachers (Mum, Dad, Sister, Brother), and have all had to deal with this to varying degrees, and have had it consume their lives at various times. My brother has the best work-life balance of any teacher I have ever met, and I think his approach is brilliant. Teaching is one of those careers where the expectation is on the teacher to endlessly do more and work harder, "For the kids", and if you keep doing it, you'll work more and harder forever, endlessly. My brother does a fantastic job, and works very hard for his students. What he does though, is walk out at 4pm and NEVER does work at home. He doesn't check his emails, he doesn't grade work and maybe only once or twice in five years has he done a lesson plan outside 8am-4pm. If parent emails, or meetings, or "school paperwork" or whatever queue up he just makes it infinitely clear that he must choose between doing the best job for his students, or spend time with the parents or at school meetings. He does do thing pro-actively like call parents if need-be, but he does not spend hours of his personal time dealing with "helicopter parents" or stupid school meeting requirements. It requires the right balance of "push back", but it can work very well when done correctly. FWIW, he has quickly been promoted to the head of maths and had a real shot at a "leading teacher" position, so obviously he's very good and the entire school-body agrees.

alistairSH 8y ago
I had a teacher like that in high school. He taught AP/Honors government and had some of the highest pass rates for any teacher in the school. He stayed after school for a fixed time - 30 or 45 minutes - no longer - and most of that was spent with students. It took him FOREVER to grade tests and assignments. But, he was one of the best teachers I had in those 4 years and I, along with most of my peers, aced both exams that year (he did AP US gov in one semester and AP comparative gov in the other).
e1g 8y ago
Presumably the backpresure of requests does not go away - when parents email for information, they do not stop just because they didn’t get a response. They will reach out through other methods. Do you know how that irreducible workload gets resolved, other than getting passed to colleagues who do put in extra effort/hours?
- jpatokal 8y ago
  Non-American here: what happens if the teacher just flatly says no/doesn't answer the emails/calls etc? Are lawsuits against teachers over grades an actual thing in the US now? (In Europe or Australia you'd be laughed out of court for even trying.)
  - skywhopper 8y ago
    No such lawsuits are not a thing. I’m sure people threaten it. But it doesn’t happen. That said, the teachers do have a responsibility to respond to parents. But they should never give in to helicopter parent special requests for extra credit.
    - grecy 8y ago
      > That said, the teachers do have a responsibility to respond to parents Are you sure about that? In my opinion the teachers have a responsibility to do the best damn job they can teaching their students. Meetings, parent emails and "admin paperwork", etc. are all a distant second. I know my brother pushes back against it, and just says there are not enough hours in the day to respond to the requests of the hundreds of parents of all of his students.
- archon 8y ago
  > Presumably the backpresure of requests does not go away If a teacher's work email is anything like my email inbox at work, ~90% of emails just go away if ignored. The other ~10% email again if it's actually important. Once your contacts are "trained" not to expect instant feedback to every email they send you, you can often get some actual work done.
  - sharadov 8y ago
    I completely agree, this works even in workplace scenarios. Do not create lofty expectations as you will be forced to live up to them. Sometimes it's just your brain seeking those shots of dopamine.
  - 8y ago
dorchadas 8y ago
I've found that's how I have to do it, too. Best decision I ever made was moving an hour away from where I worked too. I never see kids out anywhere, and never feel pressure to not do things I enjoy that might be looked down on in a rural conservative community (drinking, mostly). I also never really have to deal with seeing students out so no awkward convos there, either. And it gives me time to wake up in the morning and prepare as well as dissociate from it in the evening. I also always try to leave at 3:20,which is when we're free (7:30-3:20,tho I usually get there early to copy). Work life is great, and I don't do anything in my breaks, either. But I'm still looking to get out for various other reasons I've documented elsewhere.
- thatfrenchguy 8y ago
  That’s, assuming you work 48 weeks a year, 20 full days spent in transportation though...
  - dorchadas 8y ago
    To be honest, I find it worth it. I can use the time to listen to podcasts and generally just unwind, or I can use it to prepare. I tried living in the area for a while, and it was just awful. Seeing students everywhere I went got old quick, especially cause they would awkwardly stare and such, as if they couldn't imagine teachers having lives outside of school. It was the worst at the gym, especially if I wanted to try to swim or go to the sauna. And, of course, I can mention having the parents complain about me as a teacher because I dared drink "the devil's water" with supper at a restaurant! Now, I don't have to worry about any of that, get cheaper rent and better internet (it ends up being cheaper even when gas/maintenance is factored in, as well), as well as live in a fairly vibrant college town that has a lot of options on things to do. Plus, I can listen to podcasts and music to learn/unwind on my way to and from work. Just mentally for me it's well worth it.
    - em-bee 8y ago
      ever since i discovered podcasts, audiodrama and audiobooks i stopped dreading a long commute. on the contrary, i now look forward to it, because those 2-3 hours are the most quiet of the day. and while i was an avid reader in my youth, i haven't read any books for decades until recently. now i average a book per month.
atombender 8y ago
That sounds like a great life-work balance, but it also sounds like a privileged position that is unrealistic for many teachers. My girlfriend teaches art to kids aged 8-14 at an urban public school, and she has zero time during the day for lesson planning, grading, seating plans, hanging up artwork, dealing with parents, etc. On most days she has to stay behind for several hours, and she often works throughout the weekend. She doesn't get paid overtime (nor does the school offer health insurance or 401(k)) because she's technically a contractor -- the school can't afford full time hires -- and she constantly has to spend her own money on supplies and materials for her classes. Refusing to work outside work hours would be career suicide, pretty much.
- kojeovo 8y ago
  What does the her schedule look like exactly? She's in the classroom teaching for 8 hours straight (minus lunch)? This reads a lot like people who make excuses for not having time to exercise. I get that some positions will require you to put in work outside of work hours, but to say 'has zero time' seems like a bit of an excuse.
  - pjleonhardt 8y ago
    Not the OP, but my wife is a teacher and has one 50 minute prep during her day. She teaches 7 different classes. Most days the school can't find enough substitute teachers and she ends up having to sub for another class during her one prep hour.
  - kaitai 8y ago
    Well, that's actually true in a lot of schools in the US -- over lunch you have cafeteria duty and right after school there's the patrolling pick-up/busses and the after school clubs...
  - atombender 8y ago
    She has a short (45min?) planning period to start her day with her co-teacher, but as I understand it, it's nowhere enough. After that, her classes run back to back, yes. She has one meager lunch break lasting something like 15 minutes -- she actually started drinking Soylent for lunch because she doesn't have time for anything more complicated than that plus an apple. She gets up at 6:30am and doesn't really take time to eat breakfast either. It all sounds unbelievably stressful to me. It's very different from my own privileged life as a software developer.
m0zg 8y ago
It's not unique to teaching. Your employer will take from you as much as you will give. Worse, your insane hours and effort eventually become the expected minimum. To prevent this, many years ago I started setting the timer to 8 hours and 30 minutes (the latter is to account for lunch). Once the timer beeps, I get up and GTFO. No matter what. This works great.
remarkEon 8y ago
It doesn’t sound like you’re in America. My sister is a teacher here and if she behaved that way she’d be fired immediately.

by grecy 8y ago

alistairSH 8y ago

I had a teacher like that in high school. He taught AP/Honors government and had some of the highest pass rates for any teacher in the school. He stayed after school for a fixed time - 30 or 45 minutes - no longer - and most of that was spent with students. It took him FOREVER to grade tests and assignments. But, he was one of the best teachers I had in those 4 years and I, along with most of my peers, aced both exams that year (he did AP US gov in one semester and AP comparative gov in the other).

e1g 8y ago

Presumably the backpresure of requests does not go away - when parents email for information, they do not stop just because they didn’t get a response. They will reach out through other methods. Do you know how that irreducible workload gets resolved, other than getting passed to colleagues who do put in extra effort/hours?

jpatokal 8y ago
Non-American here: what happens if the teacher just flatly says no/doesn't answer the emails/calls etc? Are lawsuits against teachers over grades an actual thing in the US now? (In Europe or Australia you'd be laughed out of court for even trying.)
- skywhopper 8y ago
  No such lawsuits are not a thing. I’m sure people threaten it. But it doesn’t happen. That said, the teachers do have a responsibility to respond to parents. But they should never give in to helicopter parent special requests for extra credit.
  - grecy 8y ago
    > That said, the teachers do have a responsibility to respond to parents Are you sure about that? In my opinion the teachers have a responsibility to do the best damn job they can teaching their students. Meetings, parent emails and "admin paperwork", etc. are all a distant second. I know my brother pushes back against it, and just says there are not enough hours in the day to respond to the requests of the hundreds of parents of all of his students.
archon 8y ago
> Presumably the backpresure of requests does not go away If a teacher's work email is anything like my email inbox at work, ~90% of emails just go away if ignored. The other ~10% email again if it's actually important. Once your contacts are "trained" not to expect instant feedback to every email they send you, you can often get some actual work done.
- sharadov 8y ago
  I completely agree, this works even in workplace scenarios. Do not create lofty expectations as you will be forced to live up to them. Sometimes it's just your brain seeking those shots of dopamine.
- 8y ago

dorchadas 8y ago

I've found that's how I have to do it, too. Best decision I ever made was moving an hour away from where I worked too. I never see kids out anywhere, and never feel pressure to not do things I enjoy that might be looked down on in a rural conservative community (drinking, mostly). I also never really have to deal with seeing students out so no awkward convos there, either. And it gives me time to wake up in the morning and prepare as well as dissociate from it in the evening. I also always try to leave at 3:20,which is when we're free (7:30-3:20,tho I usually get there early to copy). Work life is great, and I don't do anything in my breaks, either. But I'm still looking to get out for various other reasons I've documented elsewhere.

thatfrenchguy 8y ago
That’s, assuming you work 48 weeks a year, 20 full days spent in transportation though...
- dorchadas 8y ago
  To be honest, I find it worth it. I can use the time to listen to podcasts and generally just unwind, or I can use it to prepare. I tried living in the area for a while, and it was just awful. Seeing students everywhere I went got old quick, especially cause they would awkwardly stare and such, as if they couldn't imagine teachers having lives outside of school. It was the worst at the gym, especially if I wanted to try to swim or go to the sauna. And, of course, I can mention having the parents complain about me as a teacher because I dared drink "the devil's water" with supper at a restaurant! Now, I don't have to worry about any of that, get cheaper rent and better internet (it ends up being cheaper even when gas/maintenance is factored in, as well), as well as live in a fairly vibrant college town that has a lot of options on things to do. Plus, I can listen to podcasts and music to learn/unwind on my way to and from work. Just mentally for me it's well worth it.
  - em-bee 8y ago
    ever since i discovered podcasts, audiodrama and audiobooks i stopped dreading a long commute. on the contrary, i now look forward to it, because those 2-3 hours are the most quiet of the day. and while i was an avid reader in my youth, i haven't read any books for decades until recently. now i average a book per month.

atombender 8y ago

That sounds like a great life-work balance, but it also sounds like a privileged position that is unrealistic for many teachers. My girlfriend teaches art to kids aged 8-14 at an urban public school, and she has zero time during the day for lesson planning, grading, seating plans, hanging up artwork, dealing with parents, etc. On most days she has to stay behind for several hours, and she often works throughout the weekend. She doesn't get paid overtime (nor does the school offer health insurance or 401(k)) because she's technically a contractor -- the school can't afford full time hires -- and she constantly has to spend her own money on supplies and materials for her classes. Refusing to work outside work hours would be career suicide, pretty much.

kojeovo 8y ago
What does the her schedule look like exactly? She's in the classroom teaching for 8 hours straight (minus lunch)? This reads a lot like people who make excuses for not having time to exercise. I get that some positions will require you to put in work outside of work hours, but to say 'has zero time' seems like a bit of an excuse.
- pjleonhardt 8y ago
  Not the OP, but my wife is a teacher and has one 50 minute prep during her day. She teaches 7 different classes. Most days the school can't find enough substitute teachers and she ends up having to sub for another class during her one prep hour.
- kaitai 8y ago
  Well, that's actually true in a lot of schools in the US -- over lunch you have cafeteria duty and right after school there's the patrolling pick-up/busses and the after school clubs...
- atombender 8y ago
  She has a short (45min?) planning period to start her day with her co-teacher, but as I understand it, it's nowhere enough. After that, her classes run back to back, yes. She has one meager lunch break lasting something like 15 minutes -- she actually started drinking Soylent for lunch because she doesn't have time for anything more complicated than that plus an apple. She gets up at 6:30am and doesn't really take time to eat breakfast either. It all sounds unbelievably stressful to me. It's very different from my own privileged life as a software developer.

m0zg 8y ago

It's not unique to teaching. Your employer will take from you as much as you will give. Worse, your insane hours and effort eventually become the expected minimum. To prevent this, many years ago I started setting the timer to 8 hours and 30 minutes (the latter is to account for lunch). Once the timer beeps, I get up and GTFO. No matter what. This works great.

remarkEon 8y ago

It doesn’t sound like you’re in America. My sister is a teacher here and if she behaved that way she’d be fired immediately.