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A tangent, but seeing as this thread has awoken the HN audiophiles: What should I look for/avoid in a DAC? Does it really matter if my source device is an iPhon

A tangent, but seeing as this thread has awoken the HN audiophiles: What should I look for/avoid in a DAC? Does it really matter if my source device is an iPhone/iPad? Reading blogs and review sites talk about the personality of DACs has started to grind on me. Surely it’s just a question of accuracy which can be summarized in a metric? (I’m currently probably going to get a NAD D 3045 integrated amp/DAC, mainly for the specs, and fond memeries of being a teenager with a 3020).

zzzcpan 8y ago
The cheapest chip-on-board USB DACs from China are the ones to avoid, they can't even do conversion well. Everything else that has proper surface mount chips (even if they are cmedia clones) and output capacitors for headphones is of decent quality.
ericabiz 8y ago
Recovering audiophile here...my favorite DAC right now is the EarStudio ES100. In addition to functioning as a USB DAC, it also enables regular headphones to "become" Bluetooth devices. It's by far my favorite because my nice wired headphones are now no longer obsolete. I often use it with my iPhone + Roku + Roku iPhone app's "headphone" option. It's perfect for listening to TV late at night after my kid is asleep.
- v_lisivka 8y ago
  Can you try [1] (using Vp9/Opus codec in HQ) on your Bluetooth and then via cable? IMHO, Bluetooth is not good enough. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT-rdjv8wgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT-rdjv8wgQ
jd20 8y ago
There's a sharp curve of diminishing returns, for DAC's especially. The super cheap units you find for like $10-20 will usually have serious shielding / noise issues, which is immediately apparent upon listening. Beyond $100-200, the design and components are usually pretty competent, and what you are mainly hearing is just how the implementation was "tuned" by the manufacturer (not necessarily better or worse). Playing from an iPhone or iPad is perfectly fine. Make sure EQ and Sound Check are turned off. Most music streaming formats are nearly impossible to differentiate from lossless (i.e. Apple Music, Tidal, Spotify), so I wouldn't sweat that.
- zzzcpan 8y ago
  > The super cheap units you find for like $10-20 will usually have serious shielding / noise issues That's not true if even possible (because dac and amplifier are on a single cheap). I've tested like five different DACs, from $2 to $150, even those for $2 that play distorted sound and don't bother putting output capacitors for headphones have no noise/shielding problems.
  - jd20 8y ago
    Not sure why it's not possible, though I could've had a defective unit. Specifically, I had a Fiio D3 ($20) which had bad background noise, even when not playing. I always assumed it was a power supply or shielding issue. The audio output from it actually sounded decent, just I could always hear the background noise. Don't think it was a grounding issue either, because it was the only DAC I ever had that consistently did that, no matter what system I plugged it into. I've played around with the DAC built-in to the Raspberry Pi 3 as well, and that one was more of a distorted output problem, similar to what you describe with the $2 DAC. Other DAC's I've tried (from around $75 and up) I've never heard noise / shielding issues, so again rapidly diminishing returns once you get past the super budget options, in my experience.
    - zzzcpan 8y ago
      If you hear high frequency noise it's just means the amplifier has too much gain for your headphones and doesn't automatically mute when there is no signal (many do). But all amplifiers have noise. If you use the line output though, it doesn't go through the amplifier and of course doesn't have its noise.

zzzcpan 8y ago

The cheapest chip-on-board USB DACs from China are the ones to avoid, they can't even do conversion well. Everything else that has proper surface mount chips (even if they are cmedia clones) and output capacitors for headphones is of decent quality.

ericabiz 8y ago

Recovering audiophile here...my favorite DAC right now is the EarStudio ES100. In addition to functioning as a USB DAC, it also enables regular headphones to "become" Bluetooth devices. It's by far my favorite because my nice wired headphones are now no longer obsolete. I often use it with my iPhone + Roku + Roku iPhone app's "headphone" option. It's perfect for listening to TV late at night after my kid is asleep.

v_lisivka 8y ago
Can you try [1] (using Vp9/Opus codec in HQ) on your Bluetooth and then via cable? IMHO, Bluetooth is not good enough. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT-rdjv8wgQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT-rdjv8wgQ

jd20 8y ago

There's a sharp curve of diminishing returns, for DAC's especially. The super cheap units you find for like $10-20 will usually have serious shielding / noise issues, which is immediately apparent upon listening. Beyond $100-200, the design and components are usually pretty competent, and what you are mainly hearing is just how the implementation was "tuned" by the manufacturer (not necessarily better or worse). Playing from an iPhone or iPad is perfectly fine. Make sure EQ and Sound Check are turned off. Most music streaming formats are nearly impossible to differentiate from lossless (i.e. Apple Music, Tidal, Spotify), so I wouldn't sweat that.

zzzcpan 8y ago
> The super cheap units you find for like $10-20 will usually have serious shielding / noise issues That's not true if even possible (because dac and amplifier are on a single cheap). I've tested like five different DACs, from $2 to $150, even those for $2 that play distorted sound and don't bother putting output capacitors for headphones have no noise/shielding problems.
- jd20 8y ago
  Not sure why it's not possible, though I could've had a defective unit. Specifically, I had a Fiio D3 ($20) which had bad background noise, even when not playing. I always assumed it was a power supply or shielding issue. The audio output from it actually sounded decent, just I could always hear the background noise. Don't think it was a grounding issue either, because it was the only DAC I ever had that consistently did that, no matter what system I plugged it into. I've played around with the DAC built-in to the Raspberry Pi 3 as well, and that one was more of a distorted output problem, similar to what you describe with the $2 DAC. Other DAC's I've tried (from around $75 and up) I've never heard noise / shielding issues, so again rapidly diminishing returns once you get past the super budget options, in my experience.
  - zzzcpan 8y ago
    If you hear high frequency noise it's just means the amplifier has too much gain for your headphones and doesn't automatically mute when there is no signal (many do). But all amplifiers have noise. If you use the line output though, it doesn't go through the amplifier and of course doesn't have its noise.