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This was brought up in Adam Ruins Everything, and his Automotive episode was so misleading that I don't trust anything he says. >I don’t get why cities are bui

This was brought up in Adam Ruins Everything, and his Automotive episode was so misleading that I don't trust anything he says. >I don’t get why cities are built around cars. Sure there is a fantasy that we could have cities that don't require roads. However our modern 5,000,000 population Metro areas wouldnt exist. Instead housing prices would skyrocket, and the lowest income people would be forced to live in rural areas. > In densely populated cities cars should be banned outside of major roads >I’d love it even more when there was no car sound These are short sighted. EDIT: I'm sorry to kill the fantasy, but wouldnt you rather hear why an idea doesnt work? Or maybe this is another case of 10%ers that care more about quiet streets than societal impact.

hannasanarion 8y ago
You assume the issue is binary: cars or no cars. Nobody is asking for no cars. We want less cars. Right now, cars are first class citizens in every American city. Motorists get what they want, and walkers, cyclists, and transport users get what's left over. It doesn't have to be that way. European cities get by fine without cars in city centers. Do you really need a car to get to work in midtown Manhattan? Why are the 2 subway systems with stops every 5th block, 3 rail systems, and 2 bus systems that serve it not good enough? Do you really need 6 car lanes on 6th Ave while cyclists fear for their lives in the traffic and pedestrians smoosh on the sidewalks?
- Toutou 8y ago
  > European cities get by fine without cars in city centers. Where did you get that from? Some of them, sometimes, with exceptions, with mixed success. Certainly not Prague (which is where I live). The public transport system is absolutely fantastic, but as of now it's at 100 % capacity (locally) and the city center is still full of cars. People need to move stuff, plumbers, electricians can't haul their tools around in a bag, the streets need to remain perfectly accessible for ambulances and firetrucks. Don't forget that most European cities are hundreds of years old, built on river banks, rocks, hills, the complete opposite of most US cities.
  - hannasanarion 8y ago
    > Don't forget that most European cities are hundreds of years old, built on river banks, rocks, hills, the complete opposite of most US cities. What, do you think that North America is a minecraft flatworld? Plenty of American cities are built on variable terrain. The city I live in, Weehawken (Lenape for "rocks bigger than trees"), is bisected by a 300 foot sheer cliff called "The Palisade" because it looks like a castle wall. You have to take an elevator or a long staircase if you want to get uptown. The only US cities designed from the ground up with cars in mind are in the western desert valleys where nobody could reasonably live until air conditioning was invented: Phoenix, Tucson, Los Angeles. Many German cities were being rebuilt almost from scratch at the same time. Munich, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Dresden, and Berlin all had to be almost completely replaced. Their maps were redrawn with cars in mind, and they managed to stay largely walkable. Meanwhile, London has roughly the same transit woes as New York. Was London founded after the invention of the car? No! Unlike the planners of Munich and Dresden and Hamburg, London's rebuilders after the war prioritized automobiles over people, and it shows. New York got its modern street layout in 1807, the same year Napoleon conquered Bohemia, and I'm pretty certain he didn't enter Prague in an open-top car. Car-centric city planning isn't a natural phenomenon, it is an intentional choice, and it can be undone at any time.
TulliusCicero 8y ago
How it is a fantasy when many cities around the world already do this to varying extents? Did the definition of the word 'fantasy' change while I wasn't looking? Yes, US cities wouldn't be able to change to this overnight, but over the course of years and decades it's definitely possible.
- robertAngst 8y ago
  Post a city please. It would be helpful to see real world executions.
  - TulliusCicero 8y ago
    Sure. Keep in mind, the idea isn't "no cars around at all", it's about balance and prioritization. Houten, the Dutch suburb that's really built for bikes, even by Dutch standards: https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/06/a-case-study-in-bike-friendly-suburban-planning/396107/ https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/06/a-case-study-in-bi... "Superblocks" in Barcelona: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/08/inside-a-pedestrian-first-superblock/566864/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/08/inside-a-pede...
  - Findeton 8y ago
    Well, Lisbon, Madrid, Valencia and Sevilla. Sure, there are cars and roads, but the public transport system is good enough that you don't really need it. You only need a car to get out of the city. Also, in Sevilla (and now Valencia too) there are enough dedicated bike lanes that you can go to almost anywhere on bike, and you won't need to mix in with the cars or pedestrians. Middle class definitely live in the city in those examples (and you won't be surrounded by homeless people) . In general European city centers come from medieval times, making them very walk-able (and touristic).
    - kortilla 8y ago
      >Sure, there are cars and roads, but the public transport system is good enough that you don't really need it. There is massive gulf between what you described and carless.
megaremote 8y ago
Are you delusional? There are plenty of cities that minimize cars to a great extent, like Hong Kong, New York, Paris. The problem is people are really addicted to cars.
- dang 8y ago
  Personal swipes will get you banned on HN, so please edit those out of what you post here, regardless of how wrong someone else is. Your comment would be fine without the first sentence. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

hannasanarion 8y ago

You assume the issue is binary: cars or no cars. Nobody is asking for no cars. We want less cars. Right now, cars are first class citizens in every American city. Motorists get what they want, and walkers, cyclists, and transport users get what's left over. It doesn't have to be that way. European cities get by fine without cars in city centers. Do you really need a car to get to work in midtown Manhattan? Why are the 2 subway systems with stops every 5th block, 3 rail systems, and 2 bus systems that serve it not good enough? Do you really need 6 car lanes on 6th Ave while cyclists fear for their lives in the traffic and pedestrians smoosh on the sidewalks?

Toutou 8y ago
> European cities get by fine without cars in city centers. Where did you get that from? Some of them, sometimes, with exceptions, with mixed success. Certainly not Prague (which is where I live). The public transport system is absolutely fantastic, but as of now it's at 100 % capacity (locally) and the city center is still full of cars. People need to move stuff, plumbers, electricians can't haul their tools around in a bag, the streets need to remain perfectly accessible for ambulances and firetrucks. Don't forget that most European cities are hundreds of years old, built on river banks, rocks, hills, the complete opposite of most US cities.
- hannasanarion 8y ago
  > Don't forget that most European cities are hundreds of years old, built on river banks, rocks, hills, the complete opposite of most US cities. What, do you think that North America is a minecraft flatworld? Plenty of American cities are built on variable terrain. The city I live in, Weehawken (Lenape for "rocks bigger than trees"), is bisected by a 300 foot sheer cliff called "The Palisade" because it looks like a castle wall. You have to take an elevator or a long staircase if you want to get uptown. The only US cities designed from the ground up with cars in mind are in the western desert valleys where nobody could reasonably live until air conditioning was invented: Phoenix, Tucson, Los Angeles. Many German cities were being rebuilt almost from scratch at the same time. Munich, Frankfurt, Hamburg, Dresden, and Berlin all had to be almost completely replaced. Their maps were redrawn with cars in mind, and they managed to stay largely walkable. Meanwhile, London has roughly the same transit woes as New York. Was London founded after the invention of the car? No! Unlike the planners of Munich and Dresden and Hamburg, London's rebuilders after the war prioritized automobiles over people, and it shows. New York got its modern street layout in 1807, the same year Napoleon conquered Bohemia, and I'm pretty certain he didn't enter Prague in an open-top car. Car-centric city planning isn't a natural phenomenon, it is an intentional choice, and it can be undone at any time.

TulliusCicero 8y ago

How it is a fantasy when many cities around the world already do this to varying extents? Did the definition of the word 'fantasy' change while I wasn't looking? Yes, US cities wouldn't be able to change to this overnight, but over the course of years and decades it's definitely possible.

robertAngst 8y ago
Post a city please. It would be helpful to see real world executions.
- TulliusCicero 8y ago
  Sure. Keep in mind, the idea isn't "no cars around at all", it's about balance and prioritization. Houten, the Dutch suburb that's really built for bikes, even by Dutch standards: https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/06/a-case-study-in-bike-friendly-suburban-planning/396107/ https://www.citylab.com/solutions/2015/06/a-case-study-in-bi... "Superblocks" in Barcelona: https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/08/inside-a-pedestrian-first-superblock/566864/ https://www.citylab.com/transportation/2018/08/inside-a-pede...
- Findeton 8y ago
  Well, Lisbon, Madrid, Valencia and Sevilla. Sure, there are cars and roads, but the public transport system is good enough that you don't really need it. You only need a car to get out of the city. Also, in Sevilla (and now Valencia too) there are enough dedicated bike lanes that you can go to almost anywhere on bike, and you won't need to mix in with the cars or pedestrians. Middle class definitely live in the city in those examples (and you won't be surrounded by homeless people) . In general European city centers come from medieval times, making them very walk-able (and touristic).
  - kortilla 8y ago
    >Sure, there are cars and roads, but the public transport system is good enough that you don't really need it. There is massive gulf between what you described and carless.

megaremote 8y ago

Are you delusional? There are plenty of cities that minimize cars to a great extent, like Hong Kong, New York, Paris. The problem is people are really addicted to cars.

dang 8y ago
Personal swipes will get you banned on HN, so please edit those out of what you post here, regardless of how wrong someone else is. Your comment would be fine without the first sentence. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html