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Excellent point - but to what extent is this because Iran (or Persia as was) has been an ancient developed civilisation reaching back into antiquity, unlike muc

Excellent point - but to what extent is this because Iran (or Persia as was) has been an ancient developed civilisation reaching back into antiquity, unlike much more recent (Arab) nations such as Saudi Arabia? Or in other words, to what extent is this a cultural issue rather than a religious one?

blacksmith_tb 8y ago
Saudi Arabia has made significant investments in STEM[1], so I am not sure it is an ideal counterexample, but a corroborating piece of evidence would be Turkey's higher ranking in STEM graduates than the US[2]. 1: https://www.usnews.com/education/arab-region-universities/engineering https://www.usnews.com/education/arab-region-universities/en... 2: https://www.businessinsider.com/most-technological-countries-lag-behind-in-science-2015-12#1-south-korea-32-had-the-top-10s-largest-drop-from-39-in-2002-even-though-the-country-retained-its-position-at-the-top-of-the-oecds-list-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/most-technological-countries...
charlysl 8y ago
Iran has a glorious past, but, by the end of the 19th century it was unbelievably backwards, specially when compared to an encroaching Europe. For instance, there were no roads at all. All transport was by camels and mules, still a land of caravansarais. There was no police, in fact, there was no state as we understand it; all the shah did was stay all day in the haram. The only institution that cared at all for the people was the clergy. The old dynasty collapsed in early 20th century, and the new shah, Reza, tried to emulate his model Ataturk and modernize the country in the western fashion. Basically, what they attempted was what the Illustration monarchs did in Europe in the 18th century. He and his son went a long way in doing this, but also clashed badly with the mullahs. The clash with the West and modernity was brutal, and it's consequences can be seen all the way to our days.

blacksmith_tb 8y ago

Saudi Arabia has made significant investments in STEM[1], so I am not sure it is an ideal counterexample, but a corroborating piece of evidence would be Turkey's higher ranking in STEM graduates than the US[2]. 1: https://www.usnews.com/education/arab-region-universities/engineering https://www.usnews.com/education/arab-region-universities/en... 2: https://www.businessinsider.com/most-technological-countries-lag-behind-in-science-2015-12#1-south-korea-32-had-the-top-10s-largest-drop-from-39-in-2002-even-though-the-country-retained-its-position-at-the-top-of-the-oecds-list-10 https://www.businessinsider.com/most-technological-countries...

charlysl 8y ago

Iran has a glorious past, but, by the end of the 19th century it was unbelievably backwards, specially when compared to an encroaching Europe. For instance, there were no roads at all. All transport was by camels and mules, still a land of caravansarais. There was no police, in fact, there was no state as we understand it; all the shah did was stay all day in the haram. The only institution that cared at all for the people was the clergy. The old dynasty collapsed in early 20th century, and the new shah, Reza, tried to emulate his model Ataturk and modernize the country in the western fashion. Basically, what they attempted was what the Illustration monarchs did in Europe in the 18th century. He and his son went a long way in doing this, but also clashed badly with the mullahs. The clash with the West and modernity was brutal, and it's consequences can be seen all the way to our days.