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What's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's th

What's the cost of a checkup at the doctor for a foreign tourist? (who I assume will get results also within 24h, and be informed about upfront costs if it's the law) What's the medican income in Belgium? In the US? I just don't understand how people in HN of all place complain about the costs of healthcare. I believe America has a better system, especially if you are in the hacker mindset (and with IT salaries!). Just fly to wherever, and get treated for a great price and quality. And that's not specific to the US. I've heard Eastern Europe provides great dentistry services and that even Western Europeans fly there to get treated. Medecine is a business just like any other. If your local shop tries to screw you, take your business elsewhere

NicoJuicy 8y ago
Read the article, family situation and not profession related. The amount of narcism you seem to have is astonishing. I'm not sure if you are very young or just don't know many people outside IT. I'm happy that my non IT-friends are also able to afford healthcare when it goes wrong. Not everyone does IT and only cares about their own situation. You mention that the wages are a lot more, but here we don't need a scholarship to send your children to a good school. I'm wondering where your children will go to school if you travel around everywhere. Ps. You need to be a Belgian to get the government to repay you. So you can't get it at the same price of us. So, that's another place where your "logic" fails. What if your mother, brother and dad get sick within the year and they "don't do IT". Here the OCMW will help you. They won't help other nationalities. Ps 2. I hate to categorize my "non IT friends", for me everyone is the same. I'm not handy and someone else can't work with a computer. Tomayto, tomahto
- devereaux 8y ago
  > You need to be a Belgian to get the government to repay you I don't expect to pay the same price as you. I will pay more. If it is still less than the US price, so I will buy from your country. And yes, there are private for-profit insurance in some countries aimed at non nationals.
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    The entire article is about payable health care and the unpayable US health insurance. We have a social system for healthcare for Belgians. You are not Belgian. If you can travel to here and pay the additional cost, you are not a discussed group of people in the article. Coming to here won't solve the problems for the people that can't afford US health insurance, which is what the article is writing about. Your argument doesn't make any sense. You don't grasp the concept of a affordable health insurance, where everyone can afford it, everyone is insured and only a small percentage needs it. Thanks to the government. Edit: Old comment adjusted, summarized: Mentioned travelling abroad and going to eg. India for everything is delusional. What about family, does your wife come along, what if you need to stay for 9 months therapy, ... Many variables haven't been taken into account.
    - devereaux 8y ago
      > How will you find a good hospital and the best doctor, if your don't speak Indian In India, people speak English. It is one of the national languages (!!) And in the US, we have credit cards. This is money available immediately. You are refusing to understand, your tone is inflammatory, and you are making personal claims and attack about me. I'm done talking with you.
veddox 8y ago
That is assuming you have the choice. Many people simply can't afford to "take their business elsewhere". The American system may be great if you have the money - but a society is measured by how it treats its weakest members, not its strongest.
olyjohn 8y ago
Maybe because we care about people who aren't making IT wages and can't afford to fly around and take weeks off at the drop of a hat.
- devereaux 8y ago
  Sorry, I care too. I just don't understand. Because if you are not earning a whole lot and risk getting hit with a $100k hospital bill, it just make no sense whatsoever to just take the week off (or even quit!) and get treated abroad using your credit card.
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    So quitting a job to get proper healthcare is normal for you? Serious, go troll somewhere else.
henrikschroder 8y ago
You're basically saying "fuck you, I got mine". Yes, medicine is a business, an industry, and obeys the same rules as other businesses. But the goods it produces, "healthcare", are not like other goods. Demand is infinite, supply is scarce, and on a national level it makes sense to make sure it is distributed on a needs basis instead of a can-afford basis, because that leads to a healthier and more productive population, which is good for everyone.
- devereaux 8y ago
  > it makes sense to make sure it is distributed on a needs basis "to everyone according to their needs" - that reminds me of some political movement! Joke aside, I just disagree. It is not the "FYGM" you said. It is reasoning about the problem. Some countries have higher costs. Some have lower cost. Specialization of labor is wonderful - everyone gets richer, even if a country has a net advantage in productivity in all sectors. That's economic 101. There is no reason for healthcare supply to be scare. It takes money. Instead of spending thousands of dollars in the US (or your Euros in Belgium), spend them in another country where it cost less. It will also create incentive to build more healthcare supply there -- good for the residents of this country, and good for you too.
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    Yeah, because if something happens you can spend a year in court abroad as if it's normal. Your logic is flawed on every post. You should visit a doctor tomorrow, don't forget to fly abroad for a simple visit...
  - henrikschroder 8y ago
    If the best option for healthcare in a country is for the citizens to leave the country, then that country is a complete failure. Healthcare isn't a luxury, it's a basic necessity for making sure your workforce is competitive, along with education. And the results of this failure are visible in statistics, in the US the average life expectancy is dropping, unlike in other first-world countries. That's bad for the US economy as a whole, which in turn is bad for you as an individual, which is why you should care. Also, healthcare is not just large interventions and procedures where travel cost can be offset by the ridiculous treatment costs in the US compared to another country, but the most important part of a healthcare system is the regular checkups and just having access to someone to look at you and talk to you, and make sure you can prevent larger problems in the future. Medical tourism can't supply that.
swasheck 8y ago
> (and with IT salaries!). The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability. > Medecine (sic) is a business just like any other. This is the ideology that functions as the crux of the matter. In the US, medicine is a business from which people involved should earn profit. Healthcare (and health, by extension) is not a right. In other places, I suspect it's the opposite. In a herd you can either strengthen your weak, or let them die off. Either way, the theory is that your herd will get stronger. The US has implicitly chosen the latter of the choices. > If your local shop tries to screw you, take your business elsewhere. It's not that simple. Everyone gets sick. Not everyone needs an iPhone XR or a brand new pair of Nikes. You can get by with a flip phone and a pair of brand x sneakers. Freedom of choice is great for goods and certain services. Healthcare isn't one of those services where "taking your business elsewhere" is any good, mostly because of the pricing collusion between the providers.
- devereaux 8y ago
  > The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability. And this is why I comment. This is wrong! You should not have to stretch on healthcare if you know how to spend your money. Get treated abroad. It's as simple as that. EDIT: You may lose your job. It's a consequence of life. You will still have saved a bunch of money when taking into count the savings on healthcare and the lower cost of living abroad
  - NicoJuicy 8y ago
    You're describing changing your entire life for getting sick ( living abroad and quitting jobs, so you won't go broke) and act like it's normal. You seem to describe it as some sort of vacation even. Again, your narcism for life changing events is astonishing.
  - afuchs 8y ago
    >And this is why I comment. This is wrong! You should not have to stretch on healthcare if you know how to spend your money. > Get treated abroad. It's as simple as that. > EDIT: You may lose your job. It's a consequence of life. You will still have saved a bunch of money when taking into count the savings on healthcare and the lower cost of living abroad It isn't a matter of managing your money properly. There will still be people who are disadvantaged despite making what everyone else would see as the right choices. They can even be in a position where they are at a disadvantage while being fully employed. You can blame it on the structure of the economy and society, or just blame it on bad luck. Some of these disadvantaged people are covered by existing welfare programs (e.g. Medicaid), but a lot of them aren't. Insisting that having healthcare is only a matter of financial literacy is naive and disregards reality.

NicoJuicy 8y ago

Read the article, family situation and not profession related. The amount of narcism you seem to have is astonishing. I'm not sure if you are very young or just don't know many people outside IT. I'm happy that my non IT-friends are also able to afford healthcare when it goes wrong. Not everyone does IT and only cares about their own situation. You mention that the wages are a lot more, but here we don't need a scholarship to send your children to a good school. I'm wondering where your children will go to school if you travel around everywhere. Ps. You need to be a Belgian to get the government to repay you. So you can't get it at the same price of us. So, that's another place where your "logic" fails. What if your mother, brother and dad get sick within the year and they "don't do IT". Here the OCMW will help you. They won't help other nationalities. Ps 2. I hate to categorize my "non IT friends", for me everyone is the same. I'm not handy and someone else can't work with a computer. Tomayto, tomahto

devereaux 8y ago
> You need to be a Belgian to get the government to repay you I don't expect to pay the same price as you. I will pay more. If it is still less than the US price, so I will buy from your country. And yes, there are private for-profit insurance in some countries aimed at non nationals.
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  The entire article is about payable health care and the unpayable US health insurance. We have a social system for healthcare for Belgians. You are not Belgian. If you can travel to here and pay the additional cost, you are not a discussed group of people in the article. Coming to here won't solve the problems for the people that can't afford US health insurance, which is what the article is writing about. Your argument doesn't make any sense. You don't grasp the concept of a affordable health insurance, where everyone can afford it, everyone is insured and only a small percentage needs it. Thanks to the government. Edit: Old comment adjusted, summarized: Mentioned travelling abroad and going to eg. India for everything is delusional. What about family, does your wife come along, what if you need to stay for 9 months therapy, ... Many variables haven't been taken into account.
  - devereaux 8y ago
    > How will you find a good hospital and the best doctor, if your don't speak Indian In India, people speak English. It is one of the national languages (!!) And in the US, we have credit cards. This is money available immediately. You are refusing to understand, your tone is inflammatory, and you are making personal claims and attack about me. I'm done talking with you.

veddox 8y ago

That is assuming you have the choice. Many people simply can't afford to "take their business elsewhere". The American system may be great if you have the money - but a society is measured by how it treats its weakest members, not its strongest.

olyjohn 8y ago

Maybe because we care about people who aren't making IT wages and can't afford to fly around and take weeks off at the drop of a hat.

devereaux 8y ago
Sorry, I care too. I just don't understand. Because if you are not earning a whole lot and risk getting hit with a $100k hospital bill, it just make no sense whatsoever to just take the week off (or even quit!) and get treated abroad using your credit card.
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  So quitting a job to get proper healthcare is normal for you? Serious, go troll somewhere else.

henrikschroder 8y ago

You're basically saying "fuck you, I got mine". Yes, medicine is a business, an industry, and obeys the same rules as other businesses. But the goods it produces, "healthcare", are not like other goods. Demand is infinite, supply is scarce, and on a national level it makes sense to make sure it is distributed on a needs basis instead of a can-afford basis, because that leads to a healthier and more productive population, which is good for everyone.

devereaux 8y ago
> it makes sense to make sure it is distributed on a needs basis "to everyone according to their needs" - that reminds me of some political movement! Joke aside, I just disagree. It is not the "FYGM" you said. It is reasoning about the problem. Some countries have higher costs. Some have lower cost. Specialization of labor is wonderful - everyone gets richer, even if a country has a net advantage in productivity in all sectors. That's economic 101. There is no reason for healthcare supply to be scare. It takes money. Instead of spending thousands of dollars in the US (or your Euros in Belgium), spend them in another country where it cost less. It will also create incentive to build more healthcare supply there -- good for the residents of this country, and good for you too.
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  Yeah, because if something happens you can spend a year in court abroad as if it's normal. Your logic is flawed on every post. You should visit a doctor tomorrow, don't forget to fly abroad for a simple visit...
- henrikschroder 8y ago
  If the best option for healthcare in a country is for the citizens to leave the country, then that country is a complete failure. Healthcare isn't a luxury, it's a basic necessity for making sure your workforce is competitive, along with education. And the results of this failure are visible in statistics, in the US the average life expectancy is dropping, unlike in other first-world countries. That's bad for the US economy as a whole, which in turn is bad for you as an individual, which is why you should care. Also, healthcare is not just large interventions and procedures where travel cost can be offset by the ridiculous treatment costs in the US compared to another country, but the most important part of a healthcare system is the regular checkups and just having access to someone to look at you and talk to you, and make sure you can prevent larger problems in the future. Medical tourism can't supply that.

swasheck 8y ago

> (and with IT salaries!). The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability. > Medecine (sic) is a business just like any other. This is the ideology that functions as the crux of the matter. In the US, medicine is a business from which people involved should earn profit. Healthcare (and health, by extension) is not a right. In other places, I suspect it's the opposite. In a herd you can either strengthen your weak, or let them die off. Either way, the theory is that your herd will get stronger. The US has implicitly chosen the latter of the choices. > If your local shop tries to screw you, take your business elsewhere. It's not that simple. Everyone gets sick. Not everyone needs an iPhone XR or a brand new pair of Nikes. You can get by with a flip phone and a pair of brand x sneakers. Freedom of choice is great for goods and certain services. Healthcare isn't one of those services where "taking your business elsewhere" is any good, mostly because of the pricing collusion between the providers.

devereaux 8y ago
> The point of the article was that salary is no longer an indicator of healthcare availability. And this is why I comment. This is wrong! You should not have to stretch on healthcare if you know how to spend your money. Get treated abroad. It's as simple as that. EDIT: You may lose your job. It's a consequence of life. You will still have saved a bunch of money when taking into count the savings on healthcare and the lower cost of living abroad
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  You're describing changing your entire life for getting sick ( living abroad and quitting jobs, so you won't go broke) and act like it's normal. You seem to describe it as some sort of vacation even. Again, your narcism for life changing events is astonishing.
- afuchs 8y ago
  >And this is why I comment. This is wrong! You should not have to stretch on healthcare if you know how to spend your money. > Get treated abroad. It's as simple as that. > EDIT: You may lose your job. It's a consequence of life. You will still have saved a bunch of money when taking into count the savings on healthcare and the lower cost of living abroad It isn't a matter of managing your money properly. There will still be people who are disadvantaged despite making what everyone else would see as the right choices. They can even be in a position where they are at a disadvantage while being fully employed. You can blame it on the structure of the economy and society, or just blame it on bad luck. Some of these disadvantaged people are covered by existing welfare programs (e.g. Medicaid), but a lot of them aren't. Insisting that having healthcare is only a matter of financial literacy is naive and disregards reality.