3 ms·

In the formula “just do X”, the problem isn’t so much the “X”, it’s the “do”, for the reasons outlined by the GP comment. In this particular case, the notion t

by mokus 8y ago

In the formula “just do X”, the problem isn’t so much the “X”, it’s the “do”, for the reasons outlined by the GP comment. In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats.

maxxxxx 8y ago
"In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats. " One half will throw a fit no matter what gets done. It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it... Way too much blind ideology in this country. Before I came here I thought the US is a pragmatic country that gets things done but now I see that leadership can't even agree on a shared perception of reality. When you talk to right wingers or left wingers you don't even recognize that they are in the same country.
- chillwaves 8y ago
  > Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it... Any evidence of this? Because there is plenty of polling data to show the R camp switching positions based on who is in charge. Never seen it apply the other way. https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/10/25/republicans-change-long-held-opinions-accommodate-trump-polls-show/KD1uhgMw7vM51alvkiJBML/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/10/25/republica...
- baddox 8y ago
  > It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it... I think you’ve got this wrong. I think that in most cases partisanship and hero worship is a lot stronger than support for specific policies. I think you’d find that people wouldn’t change their stated views on single-payer, they’d just reframe the situation so that they can continue to love/hate Trump and blame the other side for everything they don’t like. Look at bump stocks. I know staunch Trump supporters who have bump stocks and strongly oppose almost any form of gun control. Does Trump’s bump stock ban make them like Trump a little less? Perhaps. But it certainly doesn’t change their political affiliation in any measurable way. Same goes for those who oppose Trump. I’m sure they agree that the bump stock ban is nice, but do you think they’re suddenly “coming around” on Trump? I doubt it.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    That's what I am saying. People keep supporting parties and not issues. If the Republicans make an 180 and support single payer their supporters will suddenly love single payer and Democrats will be skeptical. Just look at deficits. A few years ago Obama's deficits were the number one concern. Now Trump has raised them even more and all concerns are forgotten.
  - nopriorarrests 8y ago
    Well, if you are a gun nut, your only options are to support Trump or support his opponents who want to restrict guns in a very serious way. Naturally, you still support Trump even after bump stock ban. This is perfectly rational. Nothing partisanship about it, IMO.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      "support his opponents who want to restrict guns in a very serious way." Is that accurate? Sounds more like NRA propaganda to me to keep people in line.
    - krapp 8y ago
      Supporting Trump even when he bans bump stocks when one would oppose Democrats doing the same, and believing Democrats will always be worse than Republicans on gun control, is the definition of partisanship. The actual truth is both parties believe in gun control and both parties believe in the Second Amendment. One side just panders to gun owners and the NRA more than the other.
      - nopriorarrests 8y ago
        What are their options? Form a third party? And, tbh, democrats do not hold NRA in high regard, so thinking that they always be worse on gun control sounds like a reasonable assumption to me. I mean, I get your point, but guns does not illustrate it well.
        krapp 8y ago

by mokus 8y ago

maxxxxx 8y ago

"In this particular case, the notion that Medicare works at all (let alone well) is a point that about half the country will not concede because it’s one of many a shibboleth that keeps the “sides” at each other’s throats. " One half will throw a fit no matter what gets done. It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it... Way too much blind ideology in this country. Before I came here I thought the US is a pragmatic country that gets things done but now I see that leadership can't even agree on a shared perception of reality. When you talk to right wingers or left wingers you don't even recognize that they are in the same country.

chillwaves 8y ago
> Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it... Any evidence of this? Because there is plenty of polling data to show the R camp switching positions based on who is in charge. Never seen it apply the other way. https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/10/25/republicans-change-long-held-opinions-accommodate-trump-polls-show/KD1uhgMw7vM51alvkiJBML/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/nation/2017/10/25/republica...
baddox 8y ago
> It would be interesting if Trump suddenly announced support for single payer Medicare for all. Republicans would think it's the best thing ever and Democrats would suddenly be against it... I think you’ve got this wrong. I think that in most cases partisanship and hero worship is a lot stronger than support for specific policies. I think you’d find that people wouldn’t change their stated views on single-payer, they’d just reframe the situation so that they can continue to love/hate Trump and blame the other side for everything they don’t like. Look at bump stocks. I know staunch Trump supporters who have bump stocks and strongly oppose almost any form of gun control. Does Trump’s bump stock ban make them like Trump a little less? Perhaps. But it certainly doesn’t change their political affiliation in any measurable way. Same goes for those who oppose Trump. I’m sure they agree that the bump stock ban is nice, but do you think they’re suddenly “coming around” on Trump? I doubt it.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  That's what I am saying. People keep supporting parties and not issues. If the Republicans make an 180 and support single payer their supporters will suddenly love single payer and Democrats will be skeptical. Just look at deficits. A few years ago Obama's deficits were the number one concern. Now Trump has raised them even more and all concerns are forgotten.
- nopriorarrests 8y ago
  Well, if you are a gun nut, your only options are to support Trump or support his opponents who want to restrict guns in a very serious way. Naturally, you still support Trump even after bump stock ban. This is perfectly rational. Nothing partisanship about it, IMO.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    "support his opponents who want to restrict guns in a very serious way." Is that accurate? Sounds more like NRA propaganda to me to keep people in line.
  - krapp 8y ago
    Supporting Trump even when he bans bump stocks when one would oppose Democrats doing the same, and believing Democrats will always be worse than Republicans on gun control, is the definition of partisanship. The actual truth is both parties believe in gun control and both parties believe in the Second Amendment. One side just panders to gun owners and the NRA more than the other.
    - nopriorarrests 8y ago
      What are their options? Form a third party? And, tbh, democrats do not hold NRA in high regard, so thinking that they always be worse on gun control sounds like a reasonable assumption to me. I mean, I get your point, but guns does not illustrate it well.
      - krapp 8y ago