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I have the best insurance money can buy: a plane ticket to %anycountry (business class if needed) Cost of emergency endoscopic shoulder surgery in a private fo

I have the best insurance money can buy: a plane ticket to %anycountry (business class if needed) Cost of emergency endoscopic shoulder surgery in a private for-profit hospital in France, when totally uninsured, and paying by credit card: 1900 Eur - including anesthesiologist fee, surgeon fee, facility fee, radiology, drugs, private room etc. So around $2200 total, done the same day, after being arranged by phone. It was in France just because I couldn't do that in Thailand (great hospitals and food, like France, but also great beaches during recovery) Add plane ticket + out of pocket costs, divide by 12: about $200/month, 0 deductible - and $0 for the years I don't need anything. Alternative options for the risk averse: purchase local insurance in %anycountry, all inclusive. Cost of health insurance in Europe for non residents: around $70 per month. Just pay, and get treated in that country if you need it. Of course, you still need the plane ticket to fly there. Still getting treated abroad is way way way cheaper than the alternatives. Am I risking it? No. I'm making an educated decision.

TheLuddite 8y ago
That's a good idea, but what if you cannot travel because of your health?
- devereaux 8y ago
  Not travelling because of some pain? Painkillers + business class. Not travelling because I'm unconscious or in a critical condition? Foreign insurance + air repatriation. Some countries do sell that, even to non residents. Just get world coverage - it's a bit more than $70, but if something bad happen, you get med evac'ed to that country and treated there. I'm exploring that option as I discover the wonder of medical tourism.
  - TheLuddite 8y ago
    Thanks, that's really surprising...not the stiff upper lip...but the repatriation. I thought it's only for people with residence + VIP client in a bank or something.
    - devereaux 8y ago
      My suggestion next time you do some tourism: ask. Get quotes. Read the whole contract. You will be surprised what some places offer.
      - NicoJuicy 8y ago
        So travelling should be based on the countries where there are good hospitals and then spending time on quotes and reading contracts? Who would take that advice? It's the worst advice I heard in several years. I thought travelling was about places that you want to see and trying to avoid hospitals.
    - ahakki 8y ago
      Rega offers the service for 25.- a year iirc https://www.rega.ch/en/about-us/faq.aspx?kid=56&gid=250#Frage451 https://www.rega.ch/en/about-us/faq.aspx?kid=56&gid=250#Frag...
      - NicoJuicy 8y ago
        > If travellers have a medical problem while they are abroad. Just when you are travelling with them in the first place... Not for this use-case, where your fall ill in your home country. And, nothing there says they will pay you back fully.
        ahakki 8y ago
        Rega is not a traveling agency. It’s an air ambulance company.
  - maxxxxx 8y ago
    "Not travelling because I'm unconscious or in a critical condition? Foreign insurance + air repatriation." If you have an accident you will already be >50k in the negative before you even wake up. And nobody will fly you around with serious injuries.
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  Do the math/research yourselve, it's not getting the same results. Even repatriation is only when you are travelling, not going abroad for visiting a hospital.
onychomys 8y ago
It's going to be rough on you if you're hit by a car in Chicago and you only have insurance in France. There's a world of difference between emergency endoscopic surgery and a trip to the ED (or ER, or A&E, or whatever your country calls it).
- devereaux 8y ago
  My spouse had a trip to the ER at one of the most expansive hospital in Spain: 700 Eur, so about $900, all inclusive (radiology + seeing 2 doctors + bandages + the various fees they sprinkle the bill with). Top service. No delay. No hassle. They even provide a translator to follow you around in the hospital and make sure you get a great experience and come back again. Considering the medican income in Spain in around $1100, I understand why they like clients who can pay $900 no question asked. We are now investigating getting coverage in some European or Asian country, where they sell insurance for non residents + world coverage + air repatriation (in case of a serious condition, like getting hit by a car in Chicago) at a decent price. Best we've found so far is around $120 month, with something around a $1000 all-inclusive medevac fee (that gets you in a plane, with a doctor and everything needed)
  - onychomys 8y ago
    I chose Chicago at random, but according to this, you'd spend more than that to just get to the hospital in the first place: http://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2014/04/the-cost-of-calling-an-ambulance-in-the-chicago-area/ http://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2014/04/the-cost-of-calling-...
  - FireBeyond 8y ago
    > We are now investigating getting coverage in some European or Asian country, where they sell insurance for non residents + world coverage + air repatriation (in case of a serious condition, like getting hit by a car in Chicago) at a decent price. Good luck. You'll still be required to be stabilized locally (with all the bills associated therewith), and cleared for air repatriation (by no means a guarantee). I have seen ridiculousness (I work both in EMS, and in health insurance software development), like Heli EMS for serious car accidents to a trauma center being denied due to lack of pre-approval. This might also provide a cautionary tale between 'what is promised, and what you get': https://medium.com/@ryanbadger/how-insure-and-go-left-me-with-a-20-000-bill-d353491c6386 https://medium.com/@ryanbadger/how-insure-and-go-left-me-wit... and associated HN comments on the above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17548285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17548285
maxxxxx 8y ago
This works fine for some issues but if you have an accident or something like cancer you are still f...ed. Also, surgeries have a certain risk of complication. Unless you have the time and money to fly back and forth during that period the US system will still happily bankrupt you if that happens.
chillwaves 8y ago
Do you know what the actual costs associated with common accidents and hospital trips are? I got in a car accident and had 3 surgeries and a one week stay in the hospital. The bill was over $120,000. And I was not in any condition to reject treatment or shop around, as you seem to do in your fantasy scenario.
- NicoJuicy 8y ago
  He doesn't seem to grasp reality, it's astonishing. I can't let it go that someone is ... Well, like that. He's lucky that he hasn't got any life experience in this situations.
NicoJuicy 8y ago
"an educated decision", so you have cancer and spent 9 months abroad for a recurring visit for chemo. Naming yourselve "educated" is a far stretch. Unknowing would be more appropriate.
NicoJuicy 8y ago
That's not health insurance, that's having enough money to have alternatives and hoping you have enough time to ignore it. Health insurance should be affordable for anyone to get local threatment without selling an arm or a leg ( Dutch expression)

TheLuddite 8y ago

That's a good idea, but what if you cannot travel because of your health?

devereaux 8y ago
Not travelling because of some pain? Painkillers + business class. Not travelling because I'm unconscious or in a critical condition? Foreign insurance + air repatriation. Some countries do sell that, even to non residents. Just get world coverage - it's a bit more than $70, but if something bad happen, you get med evac'ed to that country and treated there. I'm exploring that option as I discover the wonder of medical tourism.
- TheLuddite 8y ago
  Thanks, that's really surprising...not the stiff upper lip...but the repatriation. I thought it's only for people with residence + VIP client in a bank or something.
  - devereaux 8y ago
    My suggestion next time you do some tourism: ask. Get quotes. Read the whole contract. You will be surprised what some places offer.
    - NicoJuicy 8y ago
      So travelling should be based on the countries where there are good hospitals and then spending time on quotes and reading contracts? Who would take that advice? It's the worst advice I heard in several years. I thought travelling was about places that you want to see and trying to avoid hospitals.
  - ahakki 8y ago
    Rega offers the service for 25.- a year iirc https://www.rega.ch/en/about-us/faq.aspx?kid=56&gid=250#Frage451 https://www.rega.ch/en/about-us/faq.aspx?kid=56&gid=250#Frag...
    - NicoJuicy 8y ago
      > If travellers have a medical problem while they are abroad. Just when you are travelling with them in the first place... Not for this use-case, where your fall ill in your home country. And, nothing there says they will pay you back fully.
      - ahakki 8y ago
        Rega is not a traveling agency. It’s an air ambulance company.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  "Not travelling because I'm unconscious or in a critical condition? Foreign insurance + air repatriation." If you have an accident you will already be >50k in the negative before you even wake up. And nobody will fly you around with serious injuries.
NicoJuicy 8y ago
Do the math/research yourselve, it's not getting the same results. Even repatriation is only when you are travelling, not going abroad for visiting a hospital.

onychomys 8y ago

It's going to be rough on you if you're hit by a car in Chicago and you only have insurance in France. There's a world of difference between emergency endoscopic surgery and a trip to the ED (or ER, or A&E, or whatever your country calls it).

devereaux 8y ago
My spouse had a trip to the ER at one of the most expansive hospital in Spain: 700 Eur, so about $900, all inclusive (radiology + seeing 2 doctors + bandages + the various fees they sprinkle the bill with). Top service. No delay. No hassle. They even provide a translator to follow you around in the hospital and make sure you get a great experience and come back again. Considering the medican income in Spain in around $1100, I understand why they like clients who can pay $900 no question asked. We are now investigating getting coverage in some European or Asian country, where they sell insurance for non residents + world coverage + air repatriation (in case of a serious condition, like getting hit by a car in Chicago) at a decent price. Best we've found so far is around $120 month, with something around a $1000 all-inclusive medevac fee (that gets you in a plane, with a doctor and everything needed)
- onychomys 8y ago
  I chose Chicago at random, but according to this, you'd spend more than that to just get to the hospital in the first place: http://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2014/04/the-cost-of-calling-an-ambulance-in-the-chicago-area/ http://chicagoareafire.com/blog/2014/04/the-cost-of-calling-...
- FireBeyond 8y ago
  > We are now investigating getting coverage in some European or Asian country, where they sell insurance for non residents + world coverage + air repatriation (in case of a serious condition, like getting hit by a car in Chicago) at a decent price. Good luck. You'll still be required to be stabilized locally (with all the bills associated therewith), and cleared for air repatriation (by no means a guarantee). I have seen ridiculousness (I work both in EMS, and in health insurance software development), like Heli EMS for serious car accidents to a trauma center being denied due to lack of pre-approval. This might also provide a cautionary tale between 'what is promised, and what you get': https://medium.com/@ryanbadger/how-insure-and-go-left-me-with-a-20-000-bill-d353491c6386 https://medium.com/@ryanbadger/how-insure-and-go-left-me-wit... and associated HN comments on the above: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17548285 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17548285

maxxxxx 8y ago

This works fine for some issues but if you have an accident or something like cancer you are still f...ed. Also, surgeries have a certain risk of complication. Unless you have the time and money to fly back and forth during that period the US system will still happily bankrupt you if that happens.

chillwaves 8y ago

Do you know what the actual costs associated with common accidents and hospital trips are? I got in a car accident and had 3 surgeries and a one week stay in the hospital. The bill was over $120,000. And I was not in any condition to reject treatment or shop around, as you seem to do in your fantasy scenario.

NicoJuicy 8y ago
He doesn't seem to grasp reality, it's astonishing. I can't let it go that someone is ... Well, like that. He's lucky that he hasn't got any life experience in this situations.

NicoJuicy 8y ago

"an educated decision", so you have cancer and spent 9 months abroad for a recurring visit for chemo. Naming yourselve "educated" is a far stretch. Unknowing would be more appropriate.

NicoJuicy 8y ago

That's not health insurance, that's having enough money to have alternatives and hoping you have enough time to ignore it. Health insurance should be affordable for anyone to get local threatment without selling an arm or a leg ( Dutch expression)