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> a front end using one of the major frameworks (Vue for me), but without even the need to managing it all with node and NPM This sounds like such an arbitrari

> a front end using one of the major frameworks (Vue for me), but without even the need to managing it all with node and NPM This sounds like such an arbitrarily painful limitation I couldn't resist asking: why? As far as I heard, package managers have been regarded by every language as a blessing. Ruby has its Bundler; Python has its pip; PHP has its Composer (and I heard PHP programmers joke that they feel like grown-ups now, when they have modern tools). Why would you deliberately exclude Node, NPM, and the whole ecosystem that it brings to the table?

kbenson 8y ago
Because I'm literally using Vue, Axios, a polyfill, and Bootstrap-Vue. Two CSS link tags, and four script tags. Currently for external resources, but trivially brought locally. It's an internal web-app, so it's not like minification is even required, much less bundling. No Javascript is used on the back-end currently. To use NPM/yarn/etc, I would have to first install Node, and then configure it to build my stack. At some point if I pull in a bunch of requirements, maybe that's worthwhile, but right now, it's actually a fair amount of work for dubious return given my current needs.
- azangru 8y ago
  > I would have to first install Node You mean, locally, on your machine? But it's not a big deal. Not even a small deal. It's, like, not a deal at all. But I get your point. I thought you were advocating a general approach, but instead you were describing your specific setup.
  - kbenson 8y ago
    > You mean, locally, on your machine? Well, in this case development is done through Vim on the remote server, first in a dev environment branch, and then pulled from production. It would require installing the tool chain on the server, which is an artifact of my development process, but nevertheless should require consideration in my case. But yeah, I'm just describing my setup, and the ease of which it allows getting started and productive. I'm wasn't really advocating for or against using a build process for the front end in general, just noting my current process. I imagine if I was using a lot of modules in my front-end, I would see the benefit of putting more tooling in place to maintain and manage it fairly quickly.
  - fencepost 8y ago
    But it's not a big deal. Not even a small deal. It's, like, not a deal at all. I can't help but feel that the road to maintenance hell is scaled with tiny tiny things.
    - azangru 8y ago
      But from the maintenance standpoint, a package manager together with some bundling tool is so much more desirable than hand-copying links to scripts!

kbenson 8y ago

Because I'm literally using Vue, Axios, a polyfill, and Bootstrap-Vue. Two CSS link tags, and four script tags. Currently for external resources, but trivially brought locally. It's an internal web-app, so it's not like minification is even required, much less bundling. No Javascript is used on the back-end currently. To use NPM/yarn/etc, I would have to first install Node, and then configure it to build my stack. At some point if I pull in a bunch of requirements, maybe that's worthwhile, but right now, it's actually a fair amount of work for dubious return given my current needs.

azangru 8y ago
> I would have to first install Node You mean, locally, on your machine? But it's not a big deal. Not even a small deal. It's, like, not a deal at all. But I get your point. I thought you were advocating a general approach, but instead you were describing your specific setup.
- kbenson 8y ago
  > You mean, locally, on your machine? Well, in this case development is done through Vim on the remote server, first in a dev environment branch, and then pulled from production. It would require installing the tool chain on the server, which is an artifact of my development process, but nevertheless should require consideration in my case. But yeah, I'm just describing my setup, and the ease of which it allows getting started and productive. I'm wasn't really advocating for or against using a build process for the front end in general, just noting my current process. I imagine if I was using a lot of modules in my front-end, I would see the benefit of putting more tooling in place to maintain and manage it fairly quickly.
- fencepost 8y ago
  But it's not a big deal. Not even a small deal. It's, like, not a deal at all. I can't help but feel that the road to maintenance hell is scaled with tiny tiny things.
  - azangru 8y ago
    But from the maintenance standpoint, a package manager together with some bundling tool is so much more desirable than hand-copying links to scripts!