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The same guy who encouraged Elizabeth Holmes to ignore her engineers in favor of over the top promotion. Also a board member who failed (or chose not) to detect

The same guy who encouraged Elizabeth Holmes to ignore her engineers in favor of over the top promotion. Also a board member who failed (or chose not) to detect the underlying fraud... Every time I consider closing out my Tesla short position something like this happens and I get more confident that something is awry.

Im_Unlucky 8y ago
Have opened and closed a tesla short multiple times and it only ever frustrates me more each time. I'm hoping this bear market will push it down where it should be for once and all.
genie514 8y ago
This guy built a company that services most of the data infrastructure of the world and pumps 15 billion of cash every year- but you remember him by what advice he gave to one person ; that just seems unfair.
- enraged_camel 8y ago
  Applauding Oracle only makes sense if you believe ends justify the means.
- bdcravens 8y ago
  Given Tesla's recent issues, it seems unfair to judge someone on financial success alone while turning a blind eye to ethics implications.
- kerng 8y ago
  Oracle does not serve most of the data infrastructure anymore. That is a thing of the past. They are struggling terribly and it probably will get worse considering how the big 3 cloud providers move successfully forward and Oracle loses ground daily.
  - drawkbox 8y ago
    Larry Ellison thought the cloud was a "fashion driven" software buzzword fad in 2008 [1][2], a miss as big as Ballmer with the iPhone. The cloud will ultimately probably kill off Oracle. > The Oracle chief executive told shareholders at the company's annual meeting Friday that the technology is a fad that doesn't have a clear business model, despite the fact that Google , Microsoft and practically every other tech company is singing its praises. > "I think it's ludicrous that cloud computing is taking over the world," Ellison told about 100 shareholders who attended the meeting at the software maker's headquarters. "We think it's very hard to make money in this thing." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FacYAI6DY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FacYAI6DY0 [2] https://www.forbes.com/2008/10/10/ellison-cloud-computing-tech-enter-cx_wt_1010oracle.html https://www.forbes.com/2008/10/10/ellison-cloud-computing-te...
porpoisely 8y ago
I'm no fan of Ellison or Oracle. But a guy worth $60 billion with decades long ties and influence in media and government investing in TSLA and serving on its board is not something that should make shorts happy.
- notacoward 8y ago
  Considering that ORCL has under-performed NASDAQ over the last five years, I'm not sure it would make long investors happy either.
- ryanmarsh 8y ago
  This. It’s not surprising at all how emotional and “short” sighted people are being about Ellison because “Oracle sucks”. I despise Oracle as much as the next guy but if I were in Elon’s shoes I’d want Ellison on my board. The car business is tough, really tough. At one point the database business was really tough. Ellison achieved a near monopoly. Despite our views on the quality his software. Tech people were not his customers, CIO’s were. He gave them exactly what they wanted. Ellison is shrewd, not stupid. Churning out shit cars would be stupid. Helping Elon cut waste and increase sales would be shrewd. Perhaps Ellison, if anything, could temper Elon’s boundless optimism and pet projects.
  - sanderjd 8y ago
    It seems to me that you just made the argument for the opposition. We know that Ellison was successful in a business that involved selling big contracts to a small number of purchasers spending from a budget of company or taxpayer money. But that's not Tesla's business. Does Ellison know how to sell to individuals spending large amounts of their own money on a product with lots of similar competitors? Maybe? But he doesn't have a track record of doing that. The retort here might be that people who have a track record of being "good at business" are good at all business. I personally don't buy that. I think too much executive decision-making is guesswork based on pattern-matching to prior experience for that to hold; if you have no prior experiences with a matching pattern, you're no more or less qualified than the next smart person making it up as they go.
burtonator 8y ago
This was my thinking... Ellison spend the early part of Oracle's career overselling, then locking people into a product which they were now stuck with using. It also had the double impact of pricing out honest competitors. One of the BIGGEST things we need to do is STOP punishing honest companies and politicians. In the 2008 financial crisis we BAILED OUT banks who basically gambled. Banks who were honest didn't benefit by being honest. They should have been able to buy up the entire industry at a penny. The political system has the same issue now. Trump lies and the GOP continues to support him. Honest politicians lose because people want to be told what they already "know" not hard truths. Their position on coal is a good example.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- TheRealDunkirk 8y ago
  > In the 2008 financial crisis we BAILED OUT banks who basically gambled. There was no "gambling." The system was rigged, and the bailout proved that the rigging went all the way to the top.
roguecoder 8y ago
It's impressive how if we just took women's allegations of sexual assault seriously we would also employ a lot less incompetent, over-compensated rich men to jobs they are terrible at.

Im_Unlucky 8y ago

Have opened and closed a tesla short multiple times and it only ever frustrates me more each time. I'm hoping this bear market will push it down where it should be for once and all.

genie514 8y ago

This guy built a company that services most of the data infrastructure of the world and pumps 15 billion of cash every year- but you remember him by what advice he gave to one person ; that just seems unfair.

enraged_camel 8y ago
Applauding Oracle only makes sense if you believe ends justify the means.
bdcravens 8y ago
Given Tesla's recent issues, it seems unfair to judge someone on financial success alone while turning a blind eye to ethics implications.
kerng 8y ago
Oracle does not serve most of the data infrastructure anymore. That is a thing of the past. They are struggling terribly and it probably will get worse considering how the big 3 cloud providers move successfully forward and Oracle loses ground daily.
- drawkbox 8y ago
  Larry Ellison thought the cloud was a "fashion driven" software buzzword fad in 2008 [1][2], a miss as big as Ballmer with the iPhone. The cloud will ultimately probably kill off Oracle. > The Oracle chief executive told shareholders at the company's annual meeting Friday that the technology is a fad that doesn't have a clear business model, despite the fact that Google , Microsoft and practically every other tech company is singing its praises. > "I think it's ludicrous that cloud computing is taking over the world," Ellison told about 100 shareholders who attended the meeting at the software maker's headquarters. "We think it's very hard to make money in this thing." [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FacYAI6DY0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FacYAI6DY0 [2] https://www.forbes.com/2008/10/10/ellison-cloud-computing-tech-enter-cx_wt_1010oracle.html https://www.forbes.com/2008/10/10/ellison-cloud-computing-te...

porpoisely 8y ago

I'm no fan of Ellison or Oracle. But a guy worth $60 billion with decades long ties and influence in media and government investing in TSLA and serving on its board is not something that should make shorts happy.

notacoward 8y ago
Considering that ORCL has under-performed NASDAQ over the last five years, I'm not sure it would make long investors happy either.
ryanmarsh 8y ago
This. It’s not surprising at all how emotional and “short” sighted people are being about Ellison because “Oracle sucks”. I despise Oracle as much as the next guy but if I were in Elon’s shoes I’d want Ellison on my board. The car business is tough, really tough. At one point the database business was really tough. Ellison achieved a near monopoly. Despite our views on the quality his software. Tech people were not his customers, CIO’s were. He gave them exactly what they wanted. Ellison is shrewd, not stupid. Churning out shit cars would be stupid. Helping Elon cut waste and increase sales would be shrewd. Perhaps Ellison, if anything, could temper Elon’s boundless optimism and pet projects.
- sanderjd 8y ago
  It seems to me that you just made the argument for the opposition. We know that Ellison was successful in a business that involved selling big contracts to a small number of purchasers spending from a budget of company or taxpayer money. But that's not Tesla's business. Does Ellison know how to sell to individuals spending large amounts of their own money on a product with lots of similar competitors? Maybe? But he doesn't have a track record of doing that. The retort here might be that people who have a track record of being "good at business" are good at all business. I personally don't buy that. I think too much executive decision-making is guesswork based on pattern-matching to prior experience for that to hold; if you have no prior experiences with a matching pattern, you're no more or less qualified than the next smart person making it up as they go.

burtonator 8y ago

This was my thinking... Ellison spend the early part of Oracle's career overselling, then locking people into a product which they were now stuck with using. It also had the double impact of pricing out honest competitors. One of the BIGGEST things we need to do is STOP punishing honest companies and politicians. In the 2008 financial crisis we BAILED OUT banks who basically gambled. Banks who were honest didn't benefit by being honest. They should have been able to buy up the entire industry at a penny. The political system has the same issue now. Trump lies and the GOP continues to support him. Honest politicians lose because people want to be told what they already "know" not hard truths. Their position on coal is a good example.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
TheRealDunkirk 8y ago
> In the 2008 financial crisis we BAILED OUT banks who basically gambled. There was no "gambling." The system was rigged, and the bailout proved that the rigging went all the way to the top.

roguecoder 8y ago

It's impressive how if we just took women's allegations of sexual assault seriously we would also employ a lot less incompetent, over-compensated rich men to jobs they are terrible at.