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This reaction is so stereotypical, so ubiquitous that I wonder people bother to type it out: why not link https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/ and save

This reaction is so stereotypical, so ubiquitous that I wonder people bother to type it out: why not link https://xkcd.com/1357/ https://xkcd.com/1357/ and save keystrokes? This reaction is also false. Facebook is part of the state! Why? Organisations like FB organise large-scale information flow, in particular regarding controversial political issues. The majority of citizens receive the information regarding political decisions (e.g. who should be president) filtered and structured via FB. Hence organisations like Facebook are currently part of the the state! They are public infrastructure, and should be subject to democratic control.

dllthomas 8y ago
Downvoted for the first half, which seems more likely to lead to problems than useful discourse. I'd have otherwise upvoted for the ideas in the second half; I'm not sure whether I agree with them but seeing this site dig into them sounds interesting.
- YorkshireSeason 8y ago
  Fair enough! Do you think I'm wrong, or do you agree with the veracity of my observation, but not with the style of its presentation? If the former, I invite you to study past discussions of the subject (e.g. googling: site:ycombinator.com freedom of speech xkcd). If the latter, how do you recommend presenting such as subject?)
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Facebook is part of the state! There is a sense in which all corporations are part of the chartering State, and there is a sense in which all citizens (and hence, all combinations involving citizens, with or without others) are part of the State of which they are citizens, particularly if it is a (direct or representative) democracy, but neither of those (nor any other sense in which Facebook might be considered associated with the State) is relevant here, because Facebook is not applying the coercive power associated with the state to prevent others from using their own resources to share information, which is the critical aspect of state prior restraint that is why it is restricted. > The majority of citizens receive the information regarding political decisions (e.g. who should be president) filtered and structured via FB. No, they don't. Online is still below TV as a news source, both in preference and actual use [0][1]. FB, or online as a whole, isn't the most used news source, much less the majority source. A very large minority receives some of their news, including political news, via social media, sure. > Hence organisations like Facebook are currently part of the the state! Even if the premise wasn't false, the conclusion offered wouldn't follow from it. [0] http://www.journalism.org/2018/12/03/americans-still-prefer-watching-to-reading-the-news-and-mostly-still-through-television/ http://www.journalism.org/2018/12/03/americans-still-prefer-... [1] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/07/americans-online-news-use-vs-tv-news-use/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/07/americans-on...
Animats 8y ago
Facebook is part of the state! Arguably, if the state permits a company to become a de-facto monopoly, it should be regulated as a public utility. That was a mainstream position from 1920 to 1980.
AnimalMuppet 8y ago
"Organizing large-scale information flow" != "part of the state", no matter how much you assume they are the same. By your standard, traditional media are also part of the state. That is also false.

dllthomas 8y ago

Downvoted for the first half, which seems more likely to lead to problems than useful discourse. I'd have otherwise upvoted for the ideas in the second half; I'm not sure whether I agree with them but seeing this site dig into them sounds interesting.

YorkshireSeason 8y ago
Fair enough! Do you think I'm wrong, or do you agree with the veracity of my observation, but not with the style of its presentation? If the former, I invite you to study past discussions of the subject (e.g. googling: site:ycombinator.com freedom of speech xkcd). If the latter, how do you recommend presenting such as subject?)

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Facebook is part of the state! There is a sense in which all corporations are part of the chartering State, and there is a sense in which all citizens (and hence, all combinations involving citizens, with or without others) are part of the State of which they are citizens, particularly if it is a (direct or representative) democracy, but neither of those (nor any other sense in which Facebook might be considered associated with the State) is relevant here, because Facebook is not applying the coercive power associated with the state to prevent others from using their own resources to share information, which is the critical aspect of state prior restraint that is why it is restricted. > The majority of citizens receive the information regarding political decisions (e.g. who should be president) filtered and structured via FB. No, they don't. Online is still below TV as a news source, both in preference and actual use [0][1]. FB, or online as a whole, isn't the most used news source, much less the majority source. A very large minority receives some of their news, including political news, via social media, sure. > Hence organisations like Facebook are currently part of the the state! Even if the premise wasn't false, the conclusion offered wouldn't follow from it. [0] http://www.journalism.org/2018/12/03/americans-still-prefer-watching-to-reading-the-news-and-mostly-still-through-television/ http://www.journalism.org/2018/12/03/americans-still-prefer-... [1] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/07/americans-online-news-use-vs-tv-news-use/ http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/09/07/americans-on...

Animats 8y ago

Facebook is part of the state! Arguably, if the state permits a company to become a de-facto monopoly, it should be regulated as a public utility. That was a mainstream position from 1920 to 1980.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago

"Organizing large-scale information flow" != "part of the state", no matter how much you assume they are the same. By your standard, traditional media are also part of the state. That is also false.