6 ms·

Vermont's Remote Worker Grant Program

47 points by maximente 8y ago

llimllib 8y ago
previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17196507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17196507
danielfoster 8y ago
>New remote worker must be an individual who is a full-time >employee as defined by the employer, who receives a W-2 from >their employer and is employed by a business with its >domicile or primary place of business outside of Vermont. Freelancers and entrepreneurs are out of luck here. Unless Vermont hopes to pay for the program through employee payroll taxes, this restriction seems hopelessly arbitrary. Also note that funding is "First come, First served. You must first move to Vermont and (correctly) fill out several pieces of paperwork to find out if you applied in time. This seems like an awful way for one of the highest-tax states in the country to welcome remote workers.
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  This makes no sense to me either. A grant for small businesses AND remote workers would seem much more useful.
- peller 8y ago
  Yea. I finally moved out of Vermont after 10 years of it hindering my career opportunities. Saw this and thought about moving back for a second, except now I'm a small business instead of an employee, so no dice :(
  - ianai 8y ago
    I hope they get it together. Vermont interests me from what little I know about it. What’s the culture like?
    - jimhefferon 8y ago
      The culture is great. One of the best reasons to live here.
    - peller 8y ago
      It's a funny state :) The greater Burlington area is generally very liberal/progressive, and where most of the "action" happens. The majority of the rest of the state is very rural (with all of the typical stereotypes - it might be north, but VT is still the whitest state in the nation). Sometimes that's not a bad thing - VT is huge on local/organic food, for example. Personally, I only ever lived in Burlington. There's a lot of "artsy" stuff, as well as a great outdoor scene. A tech scene exists too, but it's pretty small. I guess let me put it this way - for a young person, it's comparatively expensive, the schools are OK at best, and there's not a lot of opportunity. I'd retire there in a heartbeat though. Rent an AirBnB for a month or two before you decide if it's for you. In the summer, Burlington is one of the nicer places you can find yourself - great weather, you're right there on Lake Champlain, and most of the college kids are gone. That said, the winters are long, dark, and cold...
    - bearcobra 8y ago
      I loved living in Vermont and would move back to Franklin county, probably St. Albans, if I could. Being about an hour from Montreal (pretty easy access to all the cultural events that has to offer), 30-40 minutes to decent ski resorts, on the lake, and a having plenty of land for other activities was great. Having said that, the culture isn't for everyone. I found "real" Vermonters to be fiercely loyal and great neighbours, but were pretty skeptical of outsiders, particularly those who settle in Burlington, Stowe, or Manchester.
- DFHippie 8y ago
  >This seems like an awful way for one of the highest-tax states in the country to welcome remote workers. Yes, if your top metric for quality of life is income tax rate, Vermont is not the state for you.
  - peller 8y ago
    It's more than just the taxes though, because not only are they high, but the salaries are significantly lower than just about every other major metropolitan area in the country, with a relatively similar cost of living to those places (at least comparing Chittenden County/the greater Burlington area).
    - Tehchops 8y ago
      Did some investigating when this was initially announced and we were considering moving. Like most anywhere else, desirable areas(good schools, near water, access to public services) in Vermont are just as expensive as elsewhere, on top of the high income taxes.
  - zdragnar 8y ago
    My initial assumption was that the purpose of such a program was to attract new residents. If that's not the case, what purpose does the program serve?
  - bogomipz 8y ago
    I believe the OP is referring to the fact that you have to relocate their first to find out if you qualified. In other words there is a risk involved. What does that have to do with quality of life metrics?
steindavidb 8y ago
(for a single filer) at $100k income, this lowers the effective state income tax to 0.8% at $200k income, this lowers the effective state income tax rate to 4.4% New Hampshire is literally next door and has no income tax.
- rbritton 8y ago
  There's also no guarantee on the duration of this program. From their FAQ, it appears that it's renewed annually, so it would be very easy to dig in roots only to find out the program has been ended shortly after. At the risk of going slightly political, if money is the reason for relocating there, I'm not sure I'd put much faith in it lasting given the elected officials for that state.
  - imh 8y ago
    People in other areas don't respond very well to highly paid workers relocating to their neighborhoods and raising housing prices. I'd guess that as soon as this gets many people to move, sentiment turns and it vanishes.
    - wbl 8y ago
      You can build more houses.
      - billsmithaustin 8y ago
        That only scales to a point. Other side-effects of a larger population, like increased traffic, are harder to address than just building more houses.
        ryukafalz 8y ago
        That seems like less of a problem if all the new residents are working remotely though, yeah? There would of course be some new traffic, but it wouldn't be a huge mass of people commuting to the same place.
kenpomeroy 8y ago
1. Sign lease for apartment in VT. 2. Lease deposit + new computer products = "qualified remote worker expenses". 3. Receive grant funds. 4. Resell computer products and never move to VT. 5. Put apartment on AirBNB. 6. Profit.
- cmurf 8y ago
  I haven't read the actual legislation, but I'd expect it accounts for fraud and what you're describing is an intent to commit fraud. Maybe you don't get caught but if you do, step 6 is gonna be damn expensive.
  - kenpomeroy 8y ago
    I did read the actual legislation.
cgb223 8y ago
I think Vermont vastly overestimates how many remote jobs/workers currently exist I’ve been trying to land one for over a year now It’s slim pickings out here...
keeganjw 8y ago
As a Vermonter, I really don't get all the hype around this. The program has gotten way more attention than it probably deserves. It's a limited program in a small state. The logic of it is bizarre. We're trying to bring in more tax dollars by giving people tax breaks to move here? There might be a small, long-term pay off but it would most likely be minimal. Low taxes don't get people to move here, it's mostly the nature but good, equitable schools and a relatively liberal culture don't hurt.

47 points by maximente 8y ago

previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17196507 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17196507

>New remote worker must be an individual who is a full-time >employee as defined by the employer, who receives a W-2 from >their employer and is employed by a business with its >domicile or primary place of business outside of Vermont. Freelancers and entrepreneurs are out of luck here. Unless Vermont hopes to pay for the program through employee payroll taxes, this restriction seems hopelessly arbitrary. Also note that funding is "First come, First served. You must first move to Vermont and (correctly) fill out several pieces of paperwork to find out if you applied in time. This seems like an awful way for one of the highest-tax states in the country to welcome remote workers.

maxxxxx 8y ago
This makes no sense to me either. A grant for small businesses AND remote workers would seem much more useful.
peller 8y ago
Yea. I finally moved out of Vermont after 10 years of it hindering my career opportunities. Saw this and thought about moving back for a second, except now I'm a small business instead of an employee, so no dice :(
- ianai 8y ago
  I hope they get it together. Vermont interests me from what little I know about it. What’s the culture like?
  - jimhefferon 8y ago
    The culture is great. One of the best reasons to live here.
  - peller 8y ago
    It's a funny state :) The greater Burlington area is generally very liberal/progressive, and where most of the "action" happens. The majority of the rest of the state is very rural (with all of the typical stereotypes - it might be north, but VT is still the whitest state in the nation). Sometimes that's not a bad thing - VT is huge on local/organic food, for example. Personally, I only ever lived in Burlington. There's a lot of "artsy" stuff, as well as a great outdoor scene. A tech scene exists too, but it's pretty small. I guess let me put it this way - for a young person, it's comparatively expensive, the schools are OK at best, and there's not a lot of opportunity. I'd retire there in a heartbeat though. Rent an AirBnB for a month or two before you decide if it's for you. In the summer, Burlington is one of the nicer places you can find yourself - great weather, you're right there on Lake Champlain, and most of the college kids are gone. That said, the winters are long, dark, and cold...
  - bearcobra 8y ago
    I loved living in Vermont and would move back to Franklin county, probably St. Albans, if I could. Being about an hour from Montreal (pretty easy access to all the cultural events that has to offer), 30-40 minutes to decent ski resorts, on the lake, and a having plenty of land for other activities was great. Having said that, the culture isn't for everyone. I found "real" Vermonters to be fiercely loyal and great neighbours, but were pretty skeptical of outsiders, particularly those who settle in Burlington, Stowe, or Manchester.
DFHippie 8y ago
>This seems like an awful way for one of the highest-tax states in the country to welcome remote workers. Yes, if your top metric for quality of life is income tax rate, Vermont is not the state for you.
- peller 8y ago
  It's more than just the taxes though, because not only are they high, but the salaries are significantly lower than just about every other major metropolitan area in the country, with a relatively similar cost of living to those places (at least comparing Chittenden County/the greater Burlington area).
  - Tehchops 8y ago
    Did some investigating when this was initially announced and we were considering moving. Like most anywhere else, desirable areas(good schools, near water, access to public services) in Vermont are just as expensive as elsewhere, on top of the high income taxes.
- zdragnar 8y ago
  My initial assumption was that the purpose of such a program was to attract new residents. If that's not the case, what purpose does the program serve?
- bogomipz 8y ago
  I believe the OP is referring to the fact that you have to relocate their first to find out if you qualified. In other words there is a risk involved. What does that have to do with quality of life metrics?

steindavidb 8y ago

(for a single filer) at $100k income, this lowers the effective state income tax to 0.8% at $200k income, this lowers the effective state income tax rate to 4.4% New Hampshire is literally next door and has no income tax.

rbritton 8y ago
There's also no guarantee on the duration of this program. From their FAQ, it appears that it's renewed annually, so it would be very easy to dig in roots only to find out the program has been ended shortly after. At the risk of going slightly political, if money is the reason for relocating there, I'm not sure I'd put much faith in it lasting given the elected officials for that state.
- imh 8y ago
  People in other areas don't respond very well to highly paid workers relocating to their neighborhoods and raising housing prices. I'd guess that as soon as this gets many people to move, sentiment turns and it vanishes.
  - wbl 8y ago
    You can build more houses.
    - billsmithaustin 8y ago
      That only scales to a point. Other side-effects of a larger population, like increased traffic, are harder to address than just building more houses.
      - ryukafalz 8y ago
        That seems like less of a problem if all the new residents are working remotely though, yeah? There would of course be some new traffic, but it wouldn't be a huge mass of people commuting to the same place.

kenpomeroy 8y ago

1. Sign lease for apartment in VT. 2. Lease deposit + new computer products = "qualified remote worker expenses". 3. Receive grant funds. 4. Resell computer products and never move to VT. 5. Put apartment on AirBNB. 6. Profit.

cmurf 8y ago
I haven't read the actual legislation, but I'd expect it accounts for fraud and what you're describing is an intent to commit fraud. Maybe you don't get caught but if you do, step 6 is gonna be damn expensive.
- kenpomeroy 8y ago
  I did read the actual legislation.

cgb223 8y ago

I think Vermont vastly overestimates how many remote jobs/workers currently exist I’ve been trying to land one for over a year now It’s slim pickings out here...

keeganjw 8y ago

As a Vermonter, I really don't get all the hype around this. The program has gotten way more attention than it probably deserves. It's a limited program in a small state. The logic of it is bizarre. We're trying to bring in more tax dollars by giving people tax breaks to move here? There might be a small, long-term pay off but it would most likely be minimal. Low taxes don't get people to move here, it's mostly the nature but good, equitable schools and a relatively liberal culture don't hurt.