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> Yes, there is a gap, but that will be closing quickly. Bitcoin is more than 10 years old. That is almost as old as 1st generation iPhones. How much longer

> Yes, there is a gap, but that will be closing quickly. Bitcoin is more than 10 years old. That is almost as old as 1st generation iPhones. How much longer do we have to wait to fix these deeply fundamental flaws in the stack? > It's all part of technological maturation. An alternative interpretation might be that Bitcoin is fundamentally broken and isn't a useable technology.

hanniabu 8y ago
Bitcoin is 10 years old and may or may not be broken depending on the end use case, but that isn't the only crypto/ blockchain project. For you to center the conversation around those arguments shows you're not very informed on the topic. A lot of developmental progress in the ecosystem with models/architectures, tools, and infrastructure hasn't happened until recently (past year, give or take).
- hanniabu 8y ago
  Not sure why this is getting downvoted, but would love some feedback.
  - bduerst 8y ago
    I didn't downvote but the tone here is pretty patronizing: >For you to center the conversation around those arguments shows you're not very informed on the topic. The "it's too complicated for you to understand" tact is a tired, overly-used canned response from cryptocurrency evangelists, who seek (intentionally or not) to derail discussions about very real issues.
    - hanniabu 8y ago
      I can see that, but at the same time I'm tired of people (intentionally or not) using Bitcoin as a representation of the entire ecosystem.
- spookthesunset 8y ago
  > For you to center the conversation around those arguments shows you're not very informed on the topic. I've been following Bitcoin for almost its entire life and am probably vastly more informed than most of the shysters who show up on sites like HN to shill their coin. > A lot of developmental progress in the ecosystem with models/architectures, tools, and infrastructure hasn't happened until recently (past year, give or take). I've heard this line forever. Lightning network, for example, has been "just around around the corner" since forever. So far, it is still just as "just around the corner" as it was 5 or 6 years ago and ranks among the top all-time vaporware software projects out there. The attempt to refocus on "The Blockchain" is only done to distract from the fact that Bitcoin, poster child of "The Blockchain" has no lawful use. It doesn't scale, it isn't free, it isn't trustless, it isn't censorship resistant, it isn't a good store of value, it isn't instant and it isn't anonymous. It isn't even deflationary (as if that is a good thing) because it has been forked and cloned thousands of times. Oh yeah, it also requires more energy than small nations to secure. (And don't feed me the line about it being "green energy" or "less than conventional banking"–we both know that is a laugably horseshit argument) The whole space is a joke. Aside from self-driving cars, Bitcoin will be the biggest overhyped pile of complete nonsense this decade.
  - RustyRussell 8y ago
    > So far, it is still just as "just around the corner" as it was 5 or 6 years ago and ranks among the top all-time vaporware software projects out there. The paper was released April 2015. Progress is definitely slower than I'd like, but wanted to correct this claim. [ Disclaimer: lightning developer and specification guide ]
    - bduerst 8y ago
      Lightning was talked about before the release of the whitepaper, along with a number of other side-chains, off-chains, etc. None of have really been the magic bullet they claimed to be.
  - hanniabu 8y ago
    Again, I'm not talking about Bitcoin. There are many other projects in the ecosystem. It's like using shortcomings with Windows to represent Linux,mac, and any other OS that's out there.
smokeyj 8y ago
Bitcoin is yesterday but look at Ethereum. You can now trade dollar backed tokens issued by fully regulated banks for the cost of an Ethereum transaction. This lets you use smart contracts backed by US dollars, or write contracts to trade US dollars for other currencies. The writing is on the wall, more regulated tokens are on the way. Public stocks to municipal bonds. Why wouldn't people want to cut out the middle man?
- asynchrony 8y ago
  If these tokens are truly regulated by the state and the ledger is editable by the courts, then there's nothing decentralized about it and it provides no advantages over the current system. All of this talk about decentralization and cutting out the middleman is a mirage.
  - smokeyj 8y ago
    Decentralized isn’t a binary. The courts can’t edit the blockchain but a federation of private keys can. It still allows an alternative to transferring money without Visa or PayPal.
    - asynchrony 8y ago
      If the courts cannot control it then they will not recognize it as a source of truth. It's very binary.
      - smokeyj 8y ago
        Like cash? Like a vault that holds cash and has a lock? Anyways, this discussion is clearly offensive to people in this community. Sorry to intrude the “safe space”.
        asynchrony 8y ago
        I only see rational disagreement. Sorry that this discussion is making you emotional.

hanniabu 8y ago

Bitcoin is 10 years old and may or may not be broken depending on the end use case, but that isn't the only crypto/ blockchain project. For you to center the conversation around those arguments shows you're not very informed on the topic. A lot of developmental progress in the ecosystem with models/architectures, tools, and infrastructure hasn't happened until recently (past year, give or take).

hanniabu 8y ago
Not sure why this is getting downvoted, but would love some feedback.
- bduerst 8y ago
  I didn't downvote but the tone here is pretty patronizing: >For you to center the conversation around those arguments shows you're not very informed on the topic. The "it's too complicated for you to understand" tact is a tired, overly-used canned response from cryptocurrency evangelists, who seek (intentionally or not) to derail discussions about very real issues.
  - hanniabu 8y ago
    I can see that, but at the same time I'm tired of people (intentionally or not) using Bitcoin as a representation of the entire ecosystem.
spookthesunset 8y ago
> For you to center the conversation around those arguments shows you're not very informed on the topic. I've been following Bitcoin for almost its entire life and am probably vastly more informed than most of the shysters who show up on sites like HN to shill their coin. > A lot of developmental progress in the ecosystem with models/architectures, tools, and infrastructure hasn't happened until recently (past year, give or take). I've heard this line forever. Lightning network, for example, has been "just around around the corner" since forever. So far, it is still just as "just around the corner" as it was 5 or 6 years ago and ranks among the top all-time vaporware software projects out there. The attempt to refocus on "The Blockchain" is only done to distract from the fact that Bitcoin, poster child of "The Blockchain" has no lawful use. It doesn't scale, it isn't free, it isn't trustless, it isn't censorship resistant, it isn't a good store of value, it isn't instant and it isn't anonymous. It isn't even deflationary (as if that is a good thing) because it has been forked and cloned thousands of times. Oh yeah, it also requires more energy than small nations to secure. (And don't feed me the line about it being "green energy" or "less than conventional banking"–we both know that is a laugably horseshit argument) The whole space is a joke. Aside from self-driving cars, Bitcoin will be the biggest overhyped pile of complete nonsense this decade.
- RustyRussell 8y ago
  > So far, it is still just as "just around the corner" as it was 5 or 6 years ago and ranks among the top all-time vaporware software projects out there. The paper was released April 2015. Progress is definitely slower than I'd like, but wanted to correct this claim. [ Disclaimer: lightning developer and specification guide ]
  - bduerst 8y ago
    Lightning was talked about before the release of the whitepaper, along with a number of other side-chains, off-chains, etc. None of have really been the magic bullet they claimed to be.
- hanniabu 8y ago
  Again, I'm not talking about Bitcoin. There are many other projects in the ecosystem. It's like using shortcomings with Windows to represent Linux,mac, and any other OS that's out there.

smokeyj 8y ago

Bitcoin is yesterday but look at Ethereum. You can now trade dollar backed tokens issued by fully regulated banks for the cost of an Ethereum transaction. This lets you use smart contracts backed by US dollars, or write contracts to trade US dollars for other currencies. The writing is on the wall, more regulated tokens are on the way. Public stocks to municipal bonds. Why wouldn't people want to cut out the middle man?

asynchrony 8y ago
If these tokens are truly regulated by the state and the ledger is editable by the courts, then there's nothing decentralized about it and it provides no advantages over the current system. All of this talk about decentralization and cutting out the middleman is a mirage.
- smokeyj 8y ago
  Decentralized isn’t a binary. The courts can’t edit the blockchain but a federation of private keys can. It still allows an alternative to transferring money without Visa or PayPal.
  - asynchrony 8y ago
    If the courts cannot control it then they will not recognize it as a source of truth. It's very binary.
    - smokeyj 8y ago
      Like cash? Like a vault that holds cash and has a lock? Anyways, this discussion is clearly offensive to people in this community. Sorry to intrude the “safe space”.
      - asynchrony 8y ago
        I only see rational disagreement. Sorry that this discussion is making you emotional.