7 ms·

Study: marketers question effectiveness of retargeting ads

41 points by Alupis 8y ago

kposehn 8y ago
If you want to gauge effectiveness do an incrementality test with a test and control group to see your lift. I’ve found retargeting effectiveness to be highly dependent on the inventory, ad units and creative, while also requiring a robust attribution model to gauge the effect. Without those tools, it is just throwing money at the wall without being able to see if it sticks.
cm2012 8y ago
Retargeting ads are intensely cheap compared to acquisition ads for most growing companies.
- kposehn 8y ago
  They’re cheap because the audience size is so limited, but in actuality the CPMs typically are higher while the inventory quality is lower (outside of Facebook) At small sizes they can indeed drive some value as you have a small audience that needs to know your name, but as you scale it starts to get pretty hit or miss.
- soared 8y ago
  I'm not sure what you mean by 'cheap' but the actual cost to buy retargeting ads is almost always significantly more expensive except for really large brands. A regular sized furniture store might have 100k unique devices in their retargeting pool, but a prospecting (acqusition) audience (lets say in-market for furniture) would be 500k+ unique devices.
75dvtwin 8y ago
I did not know what 're-targeting is'. So found a definition ".. Unlike typical banner ads, retargeting ads are a form of online targeting advertising and are served to people who have already visited your website or are a contact in your database (like a lead or customer). .." [1] My general feeling is that technology needed for modern advertisement industry, and for law-enforcement/government/political online surveillance -- is almost identical. No wonder, that companies specialized in technology to enable audience-specific ads, and 're-targeting' -- are the same companies that are looked for to supply/integrate surveillance technology. I am even now connecting the dots with advancements of Image recognitions, deep neural nets, -- with the drive for better surveillance technology, under the cover of targeted advertisement (as face recognition benefits both). I am also no wondering if much of much opposition/road-blocks to people using VPN (eg Google.com constantly asked me to choose bunch of pictures before I can use it, with VPN) --- is the negative commercial impact that VPN usage has, on targeted advertisement, and surveillance. [1]https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/retargeting-campaigns-beginner-guide https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/retargeting-campaigns-beg...
- cm2012 8y ago
  Retargeting is an incredibly basic use of tech and is as old as cookies are.
  - 75dvtwin 8y ago
    seems like at least some modern 're-targeting' ads do not need cookies. The 'fingerprinting' is used instead. "... From Meteora’s personal fingerprinting BETA we have been able to identify 97% of Internet users to date. …" https://meteora.co/user-tracking-without-cookies/ https://meteora.co/user-tracking-without-cookies/
- olooney 8y ago
  If you want to learn more you can Google the top vendors in the DMP space: Krux (now Salesforce DMP), BlueKai, LiveRamp, DataLogix, Acxiom [sic.] A couple of these offer "CRM Onboarding" (matching real names/addresses to anonymous cookies) but it doesn't work very well in practice and the real product is pools of anonymous cookies where even basic demographics like age and gender are unknown and can only be (badly) inferred. As far as I know, none of these companies offer any services in the "law-enforcement/government/political online surveillance" space you mention but I've never really researched that side of it.
lapnitnelav 8y ago
The main issue with retargeting is that most advertiser go all-in with it. Instead of being a (friendly?) reminder that "hey, want to check us out again?", it's more like "hi, you've seen this 25 times at least, you sure you don't want to click me?" So they spend an awful lot of money on what is visual spam rather than being a bit more measured in their frequency cap.
- lancesells 8y ago
  I agree wholeheartedly on the frequency. One thing I've done in the last year or so is take into consideration the sentiment toward the brand even if the campaigns are doing amazingly well with a high frequency. There's somewhere down the line where people are going to be tired of seeing your ads and either flag them or not want to visit your site as they know what they are in for.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    > There's somewhere down the line where people are going to be tired of seeing your ads and either flag them or not want to visit your site as they know what they are in for. This happens. Personally, I do remember and sometimes blacklist companies that annoy me with ads too much. E.g. way before Groupon got known for being a force of destruction of small businesses, they pissed me off with retargeted ads, and earned a lifetime ban.
    - Rjevski 8y ago
      > Groupon [...] pissed me off with retargeted ads, and earned a lifetime ban. You too? Can't believe I'm not the only one. I used to see their crap every single time on Youtube a few years back (before I discovered adblockers). Their brand was definitely imprinted in my mind so I guess it's a success... just a shame it's imprinted in the "go burn in hell" part of my mind.
- soared 8y ago
  Most platforms let you choose a frequency cap. Its only the bad/cheap platforms that serve unlimited or high f-caps. For retargeting I typically do 1 ad per 1 hour, with a max of 10 a day and 250/mo.
jacquesm 8y ago
Retargeting should be renamed: targeted harassment.
lancesells 8y ago
I run marketing campaigns and my perspective is that retargeting is effective but you can't believe the actual ROAS shown. Companies that only do retargeting will pitch guaranteed amazing results because it's the easier part of the funnel and all your efforts from all your channels feed it. Branded SEM is another area that you can't trust the numbers. You'll have an amazing return because people were searching for your brand in the first place.
- josephjrobison 8y ago
  I know the paid search folk may claim otherwise, but as an organic search practitioner I agree that branded AdWords (bidding on your own brand name) is the biggest crock ever. If you lump brand keyword and non-brand keyword bidding together, the ROAS/ROI (depending how you measure) looks good, but then when you break out just non-brand, you often see how terrible the return is. Not always, but often.
  - vgeek 8y ago
    People who take excessive credit for branded KW bidding, especially agencies, are unethical. Every agency I've encountered loves to subsidize their mediocre non-branded performance with branded campaigns. Google loves branded KW bidding, because it cannibalizes traffic that 90%+ would go to an organic result. Even with a lower CPC, the high CTR means that on a CPM basis, Google is making more per impression (nevermind the trend of the Chrome omnibox preferring branded queries than direct navigation queries-- Google can't make money if their SERPs aren't shown). Bad marketers will say "it is a low CPC and a high conversion rate", but is that better than no CPC? It is just shifting free traffic to paid. SEM has changed so much over the last 5 years. It is so much more difficult for per unit profitability on search, too many people don't understand their margins and are overpaying. It kind of feels that digital is reaching equilibrium with traditional media, but it is easier to measure that it isn't working.
robbrown451 8y ago
The ads should have an easy to use way of giving feedback that actually does something the viewer wants. For instance, it could allow the viewer to say (with a couple clicks, and without leaving the page): I already purchased this I already purchased a competing product I am not interested in this anymore I was never interested in this I don't want this displayed because it might reveal something private to an onlooker (example: gift purchase for spouse) I'm not interested in this product but I might be interested in competing products I'm in the market for ______________ and I don't mind getting ads for them Thanks for the reminder, not now but maybe later Ads that track me really annoy me This would allow the viewer to feel more in control (assuming the advertiser actually attempts to respect their wishes) as well as giving them valuable feedback (that they can decide for themselves how meaningful it is). It might reduce the number of people that install ad blockers. I'm one of those that these ads are likely to be effective on: I often browse Amazon or Ebay and don't make a purchase, but will purchase it later when I'm reminded and am in the right mood to spend a bit of money. I don't mind them tracking me....most of the time. Right now I'm seeing a lot of ads for skateboard wheels, digital pianos and Dremel bits.... and I actually kind of like those ads because those are things that make me happy, and I have no ill will whatsoever for people that manufacture those things. I also have no ill will for the site I am on and would like them to have a revenue model. But I don't want them constantly trying to sell me women's bikinis just because, in a moment of weakness or boredom, I clicked on a picture of a cute girl because I wanted to see it bigger....and they won't simply let me tell them that.
- munk-a 8y ago
  Ads are not something that benefits me, the Ad viewer. I do not want to spend time training your marketing department. Your product is not entitled to my eyeballs. I will (personally) always strive to ignore your existence and minimize your advertising's impact on any of my decisions because your marketing department does not have my best interests at heart. Advertisements were something we grudgingly accepted for reduced service costs, IMO they have reduced their own value so far that the quantity we are expected to consume is ridiculous. I would really appreciate the whole industry getting regulated out of existence.
taf2 8y ago
I love retargeting ads. When you see an ad with pretty colors just click it and then use the back button. As you go about your day the web just gets prettier and prettier. It’s like choose your web adventure. Like blues today click all the blue ads. Maybe feeling red click the red ones.
sonnyblarney 8y ago
Asking consumers what they think is usually a pretty bad way of understanding their behaviour. Because these things are action oriented, they are fairly measurable, and ad buyers should have a pretty good grip on this, as opposed to say brand advertising.
mromanuk 8y ago
It's about time, I hate when I mistakenly press an ad, and quickly go back, just to be harassed all day by random stuff that I don't care about
- segmondy 8y ago
  I use ads as a reminder. Wanna checkout something about kubernetes? search on it, click on a few things, I'll get reminded across every device. Wanna book a vacation but not ready, do the same. :D

41 points by Alupis 8y ago

If you want to gauge effectiveness do an incrementality test with a test and control group to see your lift. I’ve found retargeting effectiveness to be highly dependent on the inventory, ad units and creative, while also requiring a robust attribution model to gauge the effect. Without those tools, it is just throwing money at the wall without being able to see if it sticks.

cm2012 8y ago

Retargeting ads are intensely cheap compared to acquisition ads for most growing companies.

kposehn 8y ago
They’re cheap because the audience size is so limited, but in actuality the CPMs typically are higher while the inventory quality is lower (outside of Facebook) At small sizes they can indeed drive some value as you have a small audience that needs to know your name, but as you scale it starts to get pretty hit or miss.
soared 8y ago
I'm not sure what you mean by 'cheap' but the actual cost to buy retargeting ads is almost always significantly more expensive except for really large brands. A regular sized furniture store might have 100k unique devices in their retargeting pool, but a prospecting (acqusition) audience (lets say in-market for furniture) would be 500k+ unique devices.

75dvtwin 8y ago

I did not know what 're-targeting is'. So found a definition ".. Unlike typical banner ads, retargeting ads are a form of online targeting advertising and are served to people who have already visited your website or are a contact in your database (like a lead or customer). .." [1] My general feeling is that technology needed for modern advertisement industry, and for law-enforcement/government/political online surveillance -- is almost identical. No wonder, that companies specialized in technology to enable audience-specific ads, and 're-targeting' -- are the same companies that are looked for to supply/integrate surveillance technology. I am even now connecting the dots with advancements of Image recognitions, deep neural nets, -- with the drive for better surveillance technology, under the cover of targeted advertisement (as face recognition benefits both). I am also no wondering if much of much opposition/road-blocks to people using VPN (eg Google.com constantly asked me to choose bunch of pictures before I can use it, with VPN) --- is the negative commercial impact that VPN usage has, on targeted advertisement, and surveillance. [1]https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/retargeting-campaigns-beginner-guide https://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/retargeting-campaigns-beg...

cm2012 8y ago
Retargeting is an incredibly basic use of tech and is as old as cookies are.
- 75dvtwin 8y ago
  seems like at least some modern 're-targeting' ads do not need cookies. The 'fingerprinting' is used instead. "... From Meteora’s personal fingerprinting BETA we have been able to identify 97% of Internet users to date. …" https://meteora.co/user-tracking-without-cookies/ https://meteora.co/user-tracking-without-cookies/
olooney 8y ago
If you want to learn more you can Google the top vendors in the DMP space: Krux (now Salesforce DMP), BlueKai, LiveRamp, DataLogix, Acxiom [sic.] A couple of these offer "CRM Onboarding" (matching real names/addresses to anonymous cookies) but it doesn't work very well in practice and the real product is pools of anonymous cookies where even basic demographics like age and gender are unknown and can only be (badly) inferred. As far as I know, none of these companies offer any services in the "law-enforcement/government/political online surveillance" space you mention but I've never really researched that side of it.

lapnitnelav 8y ago

The main issue with retargeting is that most advertiser go all-in with it. Instead of being a (friendly?) reminder that "hey, want to check us out again?", it's more like "hi, you've seen this 25 times at least, you sure you don't want to click me?" So they spend an awful lot of money on what is visual spam rather than being a bit more measured in their frequency cap.

lancesells 8y ago
I agree wholeheartedly on the frequency. One thing I've done in the last year or so is take into consideration the sentiment toward the brand even if the campaigns are doing amazingly well with a high frequency. There's somewhere down the line where people are going to be tired of seeing your ads and either flag them or not want to visit your site as they know what they are in for.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  > There's somewhere down the line where people are going to be tired of seeing your ads and either flag them or not want to visit your site as they know what they are in for. This happens. Personally, I do remember and sometimes blacklist companies that annoy me with ads too much. E.g. way before Groupon got known for being a force of destruction of small businesses, they pissed me off with retargeted ads, and earned a lifetime ban.
  - Rjevski 8y ago
    > Groupon [...] pissed me off with retargeted ads, and earned a lifetime ban. You too? Can't believe I'm not the only one. I used to see their crap every single time on Youtube a few years back (before I discovered adblockers). Their brand was definitely imprinted in my mind so I guess it's a success... just a shame it's imprinted in the "go burn in hell" part of my mind.
soared 8y ago
Most platforms let you choose a frequency cap. Its only the bad/cheap platforms that serve unlimited or high f-caps. For retargeting I typically do 1 ad per 1 hour, with a max of 10 a day and 250/mo.

jacquesm 8y ago

Retargeting should be renamed: targeted harassment.

lancesells 8y ago

I run marketing campaigns and my perspective is that retargeting is effective but you can't believe the actual ROAS shown. Companies that only do retargeting will pitch guaranteed amazing results because it's the easier part of the funnel and all your efforts from all your channels feed it. Branded SEM is another area that you can't trust the numbers. You'll have an amazing return because people were searching for your brand in the first place.

josephjrobison 8y ago
I know the paid search folk may claim otherwise, but as an organic search practitioner I agree that branded AdWords (bidding on your own brand name) is the biggest crock ever. If you lump brand keyword and non-brand keyword bidding together, the ROAS/ROI (depending how you measure) looks good, but then when you break out just non-brand, you often see how terrible the return is. Not always, but often.
- vgeek 8y ago
  People who take excessive credit for branded KW bidding, especially agencies, are unethical. Every agency I've encountered loves to subsidize their mediocre non-branded performance with branded campaigns. Google loves branded KW bidding, because it cannibalizes traffic that 90%+ would go to an organic result. Even with a lower CPC, the high CTR means that on a CPM basis, Google is making more per impression (nevermind the trend of the Chrome omnibox preferring branded queries than direct navigation queries-- Google can't make money if their SERPs aren't shown). Bad marketers will say "it is a low CPC and a high conversion rate", but is that better than no CPC? It is just shifting free traffic to paid. SEM has changed so much over the last 5 years. It is so much more difficult for per unit profitability on search, too many people don't understand their margins and are overpaying. It kind of feels that digital is reaching equilibrium with traditional media, but it is easier to measure that it isn't working.

robbrown451 8y ago

The ads should have an easy to use way of giving feedback that actually does something the viewer wants. For instance, it could allow the viewer to say (with a couple clicks, and without leaving the page): I already purchased this I already purchased a competing product I am not interested in this anymore I was never interested in this I don't want this displayed because it might reveal something private to an onlooker (example: gift purchase for spouse) I'm not interested in this product but I might be interested in competing products I'm in the market for ______________ and I don't mind getting ads for them Thanks for the reminder, not now but maybe later Ads that track me really annoy me This would allow the viewer to feel more in control (assuming the advertiser actually attempts to respect their wishes) as well as giving them valuable feedback (that they can decide for themselves how meaningful it is). It might reduce the number of people that install ad blockers. I'm one of those that these ads are likely to be effective on: I often browse Amazon or Ebay and don't make a purchase, but will purchase it later when I'm reminded and am in the right mood to spend a bit of money. I don't mind them tracking me....most of the time. Right now I'm seeing a lot of ads for skateboard wheels, digital pianos and Dremel bits.... and I actually kind of like those ads because those are things that make me happy, and I have no ill will whatsoever for people that manufacture those things. I also have no ill will for the site I am on and would like them to have a revenue model. But I don't want them constantly trying to sell me women's bikinis just because, in a moment of weakness or boredom, I clicked on a picture of a cute girl because I wanted to see it bigger....and they won't simply let me tell them that.

munk-a 8y ago
Ads are not something that benefits me, the Ad viewer. I do not want to spend time training your marketing department. Your product is not entitled to my eyeballs. I will (personally) always strive to ignore your existence and minimize your advertising's impact on any of my decisions because your marketing department does not have my best interests at heart. Advertisements were something we grudgingly accepted for reduced service costs, IMO they have reduced their own value so far that the quantity we are expected to consume is ridiculous. I would really appreciate the whole industry getting regulated out of existence.

taf2 8y ago

I love retargeting ads. When you see an ad with pretty colors just click it and then use the back button. As you go about your day the web just gets prettier and prettier. It’s like choose your web adventure. Like blues today click all the blue ads. Maybe feeling red click the red ones.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

Asking consumers what they think is usually a pretty bad way of understanding their behaviour. Because these things are action oriented, they are fairly measurable, and ad buyers should have a pretty good grip on this, as opposed to say brand advertising.

mromanuk 8y ago

It's about time, I hate when I mistakenly press an ad, and quickly go back, just to be harassed all day by random stuff that I don't care about

segmondy 8y ago
I use ads as a reminder. Wanna checkout something about kubernetes? search on it, click on a few things, I'll get reminded across every device. Wanna book a vacation but not ready, do the same. :D