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Homelessness is a legitimate crisis that needs addressing, it is severe in every west coast city. There is no 'opioid crisis', it is a new moral panic fed by h

Homelessness is a legitimate crisis that needs addressing, it is severe in every west coast city. There is no 'opioid crisis', it is a new moral panic fed by hysteria from media and politics. There have always been drug addicts and drug users, and there always will be.

gamma-male 8y ago
There is definitely a drug problem here. If you live in SF you WILL see people shooting up in the street.
- babyslothzoo 8y ago
  That's because the city is overly tolerant to blatantly harmful activities, public indecency, and antisocial behavior, not because of drugs.
  - FreakyT 8y ago
    Agreed -- it seems ridiculous that there's no meaningful crackdown on antisocial behavior. If laws regarding public drug use, loitering, etc. were actually enforced in a meaningful way, I think we'd see some actual improvement.
brchr 8y ago
This comment is both unhelpful (dismisses the original claim using zero evidence) and completely incorrect. Please look at the trendlines for "heroin deaths" and "synthetic opiod deaths" in the following graph of US CDC data, and note that from the turn of the millennium to 2017, opioid-related deaths in the US have increased more than 10x: https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/o...
- babyslothzoo 8y ago
  Your link largely supports my statement. For example this graph: https://d14rmgtrwzf5a.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/od2017-slide06.jpg https://d14rmgtrwzf5a.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/od2... Overdoses have increased because of fentanyl being sold falsely as other drugs or mixed with other drugs, and that happens because it's cheaply imported from China by anyone with internet access and the desire to do so. Overdoses are NOT because of a marked increase in use of drug use or addiction, there is always a segment of society that will use drugs, be addicted, and participate in these activities. We're deep in a moral panic while simultaneously ignoring the real problem (imported fentanyl), thus the complete inefficacy of the ongoing overreactions form society and governments.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    Why are people taking fentanyl? It's because they're hooked on opioids. How did they become hooked? They started with legally prescribed opioids. Sometimes those meds were prescribed to them. Sometimes those meds were prescribed to a family member or neighbour and handed on or stolen. It's because the US is awash with opioids that were legally prescribed. The US massively over-prescribes opioids. That's why the US used over 99% of the world supply of hydrocodone. Americans are prescribed 6 times more opioids that people in France or Portugal. Here are some details: http://www.painpolicy.wisc.edu/opioid-consumption-data http://www.painpolicy.wisc.edu/opioid-consumption-data And we know Americans start with meds that were legally prescribed because: https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUH-DetTabs2014/NSDUH-DetTabs2014.htm#tab6-47b https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUH-DetTab... Look how many people are getting meds for free from friends and family.
    - babyslothzoo 8y ago
      You have been indoctrinated and you are repeating propaganda talking points with zero basis in reality. There is NO DATA to support any of your claims. Because you have been indoctrinated you are probably at the point where no amount of evidence would convince you otherwise, a bit like a flat earther being flown into space to look at the planet. Nonetheless, we can try using some data. Here's a massive retrospective cohort study on 500,000(!) patients clearly demonstrating there is an absurdly low risk of addiction from legitimate prescriptions (0.5%): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29343479 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29343479 Virtually no overdoses are from legal prescriptions, and virtually no addiction is from legal prescriptions. Abundant data and evidence shows this repeatedly. Now let's go ahead try your hysterical logic with some other issues: Why do people drink alcohol? It's because they're hooked on alcohol. How did they become hooked? They started drinking legally available alcohol! Sometimes they bought the alcohol, sometimes a family member or neighbor had the alcohol and it was handed on or stolen! The US is awash with alcohol! Or, let's take a legitimate crisis, the obesity epidemic. Why are people so fat? Why do people eat so much? It's because they're hooked on food! How did they become hooked on food? Because they ate food which is widely available! Maybe they ate food at a restaurant, or at home... maybe it was stolen or given to them! Look how many people are getting alcohol or food free from friends and family!!
wallacoloo 8y ago
> There have always been drug addicts and drug users, and there always will be. And surely we could do more work to understand why people fall into this hole, and make societal changes to help those who want to beat their addiction do so more reliably. It’s absolutely misinformed to suggest that addiction isn’t a real problem or that doing anything about it is somehow beyond our control.
- babyslothzoo 8y ago
  Why do people have a beer? Or drink a glass of wine? Or smoke a joint? Why do some become alcoholics? Or eat junk food? Or overeat in general? Why are so many people unable to control their urge to eat too much, leading to 85% of the population being overweight or obese? Why do people sit in a sauna? Or go to a concert? Or meditate? Or exercise? Why do some people become addicted to exercise? Or stare at their phones all day? Why do some people become addicted to a screen or video games or social media? Why do people do anything? It's all the same fundamental reason.
  - wallacoloo 8y ago
    I’m not sure if I’m breaking through the hyperbole correctly, but I think we’re saying a similar thing: the more that people are able to search for meaning or find satisfaction through less risky avenues, the lower the incidence of drug abuse. Is that what you were getting at?
natalyarostova 8y ago
The data disagrees with you, unless your definition of crisis is sufficiently idiosyncratic.

gamma-male 8y ago

There is definitely a drug problem here. If you live in SF you WILL see people shooting up in the street.

babyslothzoo 8y ago
That's because the city is overly tolerant to blatantly harmful activities, public indecency, and antisocial behavior, not because of drugs.
- FreakyT 8y ago
  Agreed -- it seems ridiculous that there's no meaningful crackdown on antisocial behavior. If laws regarding public drug use, loitering, etc. were actually enforced in a meaningful way, I think we'd see some actual improvement.

brchr 8y ago

This comment is both unhelpful (dismisses the original claim using zero evidence) and completely incorrect. Please look at the trendlines for "heroin deaths" and "synthetic opiod deaths" in the following graph of US CDC data, and note that from the turn of the millennium to 2017, opioid-related deaths in the US have increased more than 10x: https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/overdose-death-rates https://www.drugabuse.gov/related-topics/trends-statistics/o...

babyslothzoo 8y ago
Your link largely supports my statement. For example this graph: https://d14rmgtrwzf5a.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/od2017-slide06.jpg https://d14rmgtrwzf5a.cloudfront.net/sites/default/files/od2... Overdoses have increased because of fentanyl being sold falsely as other drugs or mixed with other drugs, and that happens because it's cheaply imported from China by anyone with internet access and the desire to do so. Overdoses are NOT because of a marked increase in use of drug use or addiction, there is always a segment of society that will use drugs, be addicted, and participate in these activities. We're deep in a moral panic while simultaneously ignoring the real problem (imported fentanyl), thus the complete inefficacy of the ongoing overreactions form society and governments.
- DanBC 8y ago
  Why are people taking fentanyl? It's because they're hooked on opioids. How did they become hooked? They started with legally prescribed opioids. Sometimes those meds were prescribed to them. Sometimes those meds were prescribed to a family member or neighbour and handed on or stolen. It's because the US is awash with opioids that were legally prescribed. The US massively over-prescribes opioids. That's why the US used over 99% of the world supply of hydrocodone. Americans are prescribed 6 times more opioids that people in France or Portugal. Here are some details: http://www.painpolicy.wisc.edu/opioid-consumption-data http://www.painpolicy.wisc.edu/opioid-consumption-data And we know Americans start with meds that were legally prescribed because: https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUH-DetTabs2014/NSDUH-DetTabs2014.htm#tab6-47b https://www.samhsa.gov/data/sites/default/files/NSDUH-DetTab... Look how many people are getting meds for free from friends and family.
  - babyslothzoo 8y ago
    You have been indoctrinated and you are repeating propaganda talking points with zero basis in reality. There is NO DATA to support any of your claims. Because you have been indoctrinated you are probably at the point where no amount of evidence would convince you otherwise, a bit like a flat earther being flown into space to look at the planet. Nonetheless, we can try using some data. Here's a massive retrospective cohort study on 500,000(!) patients clearly demonstrating there is an absurdly low risk of addiction from legitimate prescriptions (0.5%): https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29343479 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29343479 Virtually no overdoses are from legal prescriptions, and virtually no addiction is from legal prescriptions. Abundant data and evidence shows this repeatedly. Now let's go ahead try your hysterical logic with some other issues: Why do people drink alcohol? It's because they're hooked on alcohol. How did they become hooked? They started drinking legally available alcohol! Sometimes they bought the alcohol, sometimes a family member or neighbor had the alcohol and it was handed on or stolen! The US is awash with alcohol! Or, let's take a legitimate crisis, the obesity epidemic. Why are people so fat? Why do people eat so much? It's because they're hooked on food! How did they become hooked on food? Because they ate food which is widely available! Maybe they ate food at a restaurant, or at home... maybe it was stolen or given to them! Look how many people are getting alcohol or food free from friends and family!!

wallacoloo 8y ago

> There have always been drug addicts and drug users, and there always will be. And surely we could do more work to understand why people fall into this hole, and make societal changes to help those who want to beat their addiction do so more reliably. It’s absolutely misinformed to suggest that addiction isn’t a real problem or that doing anything about it is somehow beyond our control.

babyslothzoo 8y ago
Why do people have a beer? Or drink a glass of wine? Or smoke a joint? Why do some become alcoholics? Or eat junk food? Or overeat in general? Why are so many people unable to control their urge to eat too much, leading to 85% of the population being overweight or obese? Why do people sit in a sauna? Or go to a concert? Or meditate? Or exercise? Why do some people become addicted to exercise? Or stare at their phones all day? Why do some people become addicted to a screen or video games or social media? Why do people do anything? It's all the same fundamental reason.
- wallacoloo 8y ago
  I’m not sure if I’m breaking through the hyperbole correctly, but I think we’re saying a similar thing: the more that people are able to search for meaning or find satisfaction through less risky avenues, the lower the incidence of drug abuse. Is that what you were getting at?

natalyarostova 8y ago

The data disagrees with you, unless your definition of crisis is sufficiently idiosyncratic.