6 ms·

> I think that in the future societies will look back at our consumption of meat, especially factory farming methods, and wonder why it took us so long to chang

> I think that in the future societies will look back at our consumption of meat, especially factory farming methods, and wonder why it took us so long to change our attitudes on this issue. How would future societies propose we feed ourselves if we don't eat meat?

maxxxxx 8y ago
You can eat plants perfectly fine which in addition is much easier on the environment. At a minimum meat consumption could be reduced a lot.
- merb 8y ago
  some plants would kill the planet as well. let's take almonds for example, they need a huge amount of water. and still more and more products will include them. if everybody eats plants we would also need a huge amount of water/field sizes to feed everybody. guess the best thing is a healthy mix of everything.
  - hjek 8y ago
    > if everybody eats plants we would also need a huge amount of water/field sizes to feed everybody. Keeping non-human animals for the purpose of eating their flesh requires even huger amounts of water/field sizes; so much in fact that half of the world's crops are fed to non-human animals[0]. [0]: https://www.treehugger.com/green-food/half-of-world-crop-is-feeding-animals-not-people.html https://www.treehugger.com/green-food/half-of-world-crop-is-...
    - cataphract 8y ago
      Those numbers are way off, even if industrial animal husbandry is highly inefficient. You may want to read Meat: a benign extravagance by Simon Fairlie: https://www.amazon.com/Meat-Benign-Extravagance-Simon-Fairlie/dp/1603583246 https://www.amazon.com/Meat-Benign-Extravagance-Simon-Fairli...
      - hjek 8y ago
        Here's some numbers from a peer-reviewed analysis from 2018[0]: > The new analysis shows that while meat and dairy provide just 18% of calories and 37% of protein, it uses the vast majority – 83% – of farmland and produces 60% of agriculture’s greenhouse gas emissions. I know I was responding to a specific comment about land usage, but I probably wouldn't read that book as I also believe that we should prevent unnecessary pain and suffering, e.g. even if we hypothetically found out that the smoke from the ovens in concentration camps didn't contribute significantly to air pollution, they still wouldn't be a good idea, so of course I object to a book that describes ongoing mass killings as "benign". But if you have the specific numbers from the book handy, I'd still like to give them a look. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding...
  - jamil7 8y ago
    Animals need even more water and space, both for themselves and for the huge amount of plant crops we grow to feed them. Which one do you think is more effecient to eat?
    - nec4b 8y ago
      How much grass can a human eat? There are huge swathes of land where nothing but grass grows. Animal can graze it and people can eat animals.
      - jamil7 8y ago
        This argument that certain areas _only_ support grass / ruminants gets brought up a lot but isn't accurate. Grasslands are some of the richest areas for growing plant-based crops in the USA.
hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
Is that a serious question? As one small example, the 500 million or so vegetarians in India seem to do just fine.
- platz 8y ago
  I thought there were a few required proteins that were very hard to supply in the body without an animal source
  - tree_of_item 8y ago
    I thought the same. I get the sense people gloss over this in their promotion of vegetarianism/veganism
  - spraak 8y ago
    All amino acids originate from non-animals (plants, microbes). Where do you think other animals get their essential amino acids? They eat plants or eat an animal that ate plants. All plant proteins have all of the essential amino acids. The only truly “incomplete” protein is gelatin, which is missing the amino acid tryptophan, so the only protein source you couldn’t live on is Jello.
    - hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
      Basically all of your comment is false. Humans can synthesize many amino acids. That is the defining difference between non-essential vs. essential amino acids. And there are lots of plant sources that are missing or insufficient in essential amino acids. Beans, for example, are lacking in methionine, which is why corn and beans are eaten together in some traditional diets.
      - spraak 8y ago
        Sorry, all essential* amino acids come from plants or microbes. Beans, e.g. pinto, do have methionine, but corn has even less, so I don't see your point. Besides, you probably don't want a lot of methionine in your diet (it's linked to feeding cancer) [1..7]. Further, you're recycling the tired myth that "protein comibing" is necessary. Our body maintains pools of free amino acids by dumping protein into the digestive tract, which are broken down and reassembled, i.e. it does the protein combining for us, it's not necessary to explicitly do it through meals if you're otherwise eating a varied diet that sufficient in calories. [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22171665 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22171665 [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18789600 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18789600 [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15955547 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15955547 [4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18252204 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18252204 [5] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22342103 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22342103 [6] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11603655 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11603655 [7] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14585259 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14585259
sincerely 8y ago
https://i.imgur.com/qBxCYma.png https://i.imgur.com/qBxCYma.png

maxxxxx 8y ago

You can eat plants perfectly fine which in addition is much easier on the environment. At a minimum meat consumption could be reduced a lot.

merb 8y ago
some plants would kill the planet as well. let's take almonds for example, they need a huge amount of water. and still more and more products will include them. if everybody eats plants we would also need a huge amount of water/field sizes to feed everybody. guess the best thing is a healthy mix of everything.
- hjek 8y ago
  > if everybody eats plants we would also need a huge amount of water/field sizes to feed everybody. Keeping non-human animals for the purpose of eating their flesh requires even huger amounts of water/field sizes; so much in fact that half of the world's crops are fed to non-human animals[0]. [0]: https://www.treehugger.com/green-food/half-of-world-crop-is-feeding-animals-not-people.html https://www.treehugger.com/green-food/half-of-world-crop-is-...
  - cataphract 8y ago
    Those numbers are way off, even if industrial animal husbandry is highly inefficient. You may want to read Meat: a benign extravagance by Simon Fairlie: https://www.amazon.com/Meat-Benign-Extravagance-Simon-Fairlie/dp/1603583246 https://www.amazon.com/Meat-Benign-Extravagance-Simon-Fairli...
    - hjek 8y ago
      Here's some numbers from a peer-reviewed analysis from 2018[0]: > The new analysis shows that while meat and dairy provide just 18% of calories and 37% of protein, it uses the vast majority – 83% – of farmland and produces 60% of agriculture’s greenhouse gas emissions. I know I was responding to a specific comment about land usage, but I probably wouldn't read that book as I also believe that we should prevent unnecessary pain and suffering, e.g. even if we hypothetically found out that the smoke from the ovens in concentration camps didn't contribute significantly to air pollution, they still wouldn't be a good idea, so of course I object to a book that describes ongoing mass killings as "benign". But if you have the specific numbers from the book handy, I'd still like to give them a look. [0]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding-meat-and-dairy-is-single-biggest-way-to-reduce-your-impact-on-earth https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/may/31/avoiding...
- jamil7 8y ago
  Animals need even more water and space, both for themselves and for the huge amount of plant crops we grow to feed them. Which one do you think is more effecient to eat?
  - nec4b 8y ago
    How much grass can a human eat? There are huge swathes of land where nothing but grass grows. Animal can graze it and people can eat animals.
    - jamil7 8y ago
      This argument that certain areas _only_ support grass / ruminants gets brought up a lot but isn't accurate. Grasslands are some of the richest areas for growing plant-based crops in the USA.

hn_throwaway_99 8y ago

Is that a serious question? As one small example, the 500 million or so vegetarians in India seem to do just fine.

platz 8y ago
I thought there were a few required proteins that were very hard to supply in the body without an animal source
- tree_of_item 8y ago
  I thought the same. I get the sense people gloss over this in their promotion of vegetarianism/veganism
- spraak 8y ago
  All amino acids originate from non-animals (plants, microbes). Where do you think other animals get their essential amino acids? They eat plants or eat an animal that ate plants. All plant proteins have all of the essential amino acids. The only truly “incomplete” protein is gelatin, which is missing the amino acid tryptophan, so the only protein source you couldn’t live on is Jello.
  - hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
    Basically all of your comment is false. Humans can synthesize many amino acids. That is the defining difference between non-essential vs. essential amino acids. And there are lots of plant sources that are missing or insufficient in essential amino acids. Beans, for example, are lacking in methionine, which is why corn and beans are eaten together in some traditional diets.
    - spraak 8y ago
      Sorry, all essential* amino acids come from plants or microbes. Beans, e.g. pinto, do have methionine, but corn has even less, so I don't see your point. Besides, you probably don't want a lot of methionine in your diet (it's linked to feeding cancer) [1..7]. Further, you're recycling the tired myth that "protein comibing" is necessary. Our body maintains pools of free amino acids by dumping protein into the digestive tract, which are broken down and reassembled, i.e. it does the protein combining for us, it's not necessary to explicitly do it through meals if you're otherwise eating a varied diet that sufficient in calories. [1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22171665 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22171665 [2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18789600 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18789600 [3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15955547 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15955547 [4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18252204 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18252204 [5] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22342103 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22342103 [6] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11603655 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11603655 [7] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14585259 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14585259

sincerely 8y ago

https://i.imgur.com/qBxCYma.png https://i.imgur.com/qBxCYma.png