7 ms·

Dear Steve Jobs: You're wrong again.

61 points by Garbage 16y ago

preek 16y ago
I'm concerned with the authors heart rate. I hope he's well. The article certainly has truth in it, but I would propose a rename to: Random ramblings from an Android user. Also, I propose the author might take a look into Paul Grahams essay on "How to disagree"[1]. 1. http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html
- SmokenJoe 16y ago
  That is a good article. I did not see much point to the computer world opinion piece.
- drats 16y ago
  I am not sure trolls have a pulse. Perhaps you are detecting the speed with which his editor patting him on the back with all the page views? That said, I agree with every delicious word of the article (I am rabidly anti-Apple) and enjoyed reading it and enjoyed even more the twisted outrage I imagined would be forming (foaming?) in the minds of certain people as they read it, and then I had to chuckle a bit as I now see said people freaking out and firing madly into the jungle, Predator-style. Except this type of pulse-free troll doesn't bleed and you can't kill it. And no matter how many times this is pointed out the pro and anti Apple trolls will continue and there will be no light, Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain; And we are here as on a darkling plain Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, Where ignorant commentators clash by night.
- Dbug 16y ago
  If the author wants to rant, I would think digging into the motives for Apple backing away from Java support might be more fertile territory. At least it'd have more substance to it that what amount to PR positions on numbers. Things to ponder... Could Apple be trying to throw a wet towel on doing Java development for other platforms (Android in particular)? Of course if they're wanting more of a closed system, they're probably also aware that some of the more popular peer to peer apps use Java too. (Limewire / Frostwire, Vuze / Azureus). Between not being allowed on the store, Java probably not being installed by default soon, and questionable robustness of future Java options, they've thrown a wet towel on the sharing apps too. It's not like the cost of paying developers to work on Java is a burden for Apple, and it doesn't have the reputation Flash does for crashing/slowing the system. Vulnerabilities could be an excuse to stay clear of Java, but like Flash, if users have it installed and have to get updates outside of the (semi) automatic software updates, users are less likely to be up to date, not more. If the author wants a little speculation for his rant, he ought to ask questions like will Steve kill X11? The Mac with OS X has had a lot of respect as a stable very interoperable do-everything platform. If Apple wants to change that, some of us will be kicking and screaming. Apple has been able to give users an extra nudge towards new hardware by limiting the length of time old hardware sees major OS updates. (The 1985 Mac Plus was still supported under System 7.5, well past the five year period seen now). Killing support for something without the justification of certain hardware being inadequate is a tougher pill to swallow. If Apple goes too far, they'll certainly lose more science/engineering types to Linux.
  - pohl 16y ago
    It's not like the cost of paying developers to work on Java is a burden for Apple, Perhaps, but since Oracle is trying to monetize Java through litigation and premium JVMs, it makes sense for Apple to stand back and let Oracle do the porting & maintenance.
  - philwelch 16y ago
    Things to ponder... Could Apple be trying to throw a wet towel on doing Java development for other platforms (Android in particular)? No, because Android already distributes an SDK for Mac, and can easily deploy whatever Java stuff they need along with it: http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html * Of course if they're wanting more of a closed system, they're probably also aware that some of the more popular peer to peer apps use Java too. (Limewire / Frostwire, Vuze / Azureus). Between not being allowed on the store, Java probably not being installed by default soon, and questionable robustness of future Java options, they've thrown a wet towel on the sharing apps too.* Transmission, the best BitTorrent client, runs natively on Mac.
davidedicillo 16y ago
Why people can't accept the fact that Apple doesn't care about having biggest market share. Of course if they can they'll be happy to take it like for the mp3 players market. At the moment, looking at the numbers, Android is eating market share mostly from Apple's other competitors. Remember, this is not a race to be the company who makes the most money, it's just about making tons of money, and this is what Apple cares about. Look at the computer marktet, they don't care in selling more pc than Dell, they care of making a boatload of profit, even with their 7%.
- w1ntermute 16y ago
  > Apple doesn't care about having biggest market share If this is true, why did Jobs make such a big deal about market share during the earnings call? Shouldn't he have just ignored that topic?
  - KirinDave 16y ago
    Probably because everyone else seems to think that market share is so important. I'm not sure why. Look at Apple's current position as a minority PC vendor. I think Steve is trying to make the point that the iOS ecosystem is huge, healthy, and a much larger play than a smartphone OS.
  - davidedicillo 16y ago
    if the iPhone had infinite color models, he would probably highlight that every chance he had, but that doesn't make it a priority in their strategy. But of course if you are passing a company like RIM that represented the concept of smartphone for years, that's something you want to tell people about.
  - protomyth 16y ago
    You don't ignore the topic when your on an earnings call unless you want some really bad articles written. You could do like he did with the flash question ("we love flash memory") or you can give them some stats. The actual quotes (not the summarized crud in the article) were about on par with what was said about Apple at the last Google event. The big take away from the call really wasn't Android versus iPhone, it was iPhone versus Blackberry. The "aw shucks" businesses are adopting iPhone / iPad all on their own without an Apple push is a pretty big shot at RIM. Add to that the whole 7" screen thing, it really looks like Apple is thinking of RIM customers as up for grabs. I find it funny that a column called "Android Power" isn't talking about cool Android stuff. Seems like another "I need some page views" article.
mattdonahoe 16y ago
Did not know about the TweetDeck thing.
zaphar 16y ago
I found his ramblings on it Just Working to be of interest. My experience with getting an IPod to just work was the same. Getting music and apps on the Android phone is far easier than the IPod. Their stance of requiring the ITunes app really harms the User Experience there. It actually suprises me that they have let it go like this for so long. I would have expected from Apple's reputation that they would have made it much easier by now.
- cshenoy 16y ago
  I agree but I would assume it has to do with anti-piracy measures. Being the number-one music vendor in the US has its downsides since all the record companies (and RIAA) have a vested interest in it. Though I could be wrong.
chadp 16y ago
Ok, this computerworld kid has a couple of points but the writing is drawn out drivel. The personal dig about steve's wardrobe was totally un-needed and unclassy. Steve Jobs has masterminded the most amazing turnaround story probably in history. Have some respect at least. What an idiot this writer is.
- drats 16y ago
  You say that the dig about the wardrobe is "un-needed and unclassy" and then go on to say the writer is an "idiot". I think you need to look in the mirror and see that the pot is just as black as the kettle.
- bryanlarsen 16y ago
  No, it wasn't a great joke, but the funniest part about it is that it came at the end of a long article that would have had Apple fan-boys so steaming mad that they would be unable to rationally respond to it. And there is nothing funnier than watching normally rational people so angry that they're irrational. (And thus unable to rationally respond to this comment, making the whole situation worse, but even so much more funny.)
brown9-2 16y ago
JR Raphael: "First, when you say that Apple has more daily activations than Android, your figures include all iOS devices: iPhones, iPads, and iPods. The Android figures we've been looking at so far focus solely on phones." The actual quote from Steve Jobs on the earnings call: "Well, what about Google? Last week, Eric Schmidt reiterated that they are activating 200,000 Android devices per day. And have around 90,000 apps in their App Store. For comparison, Apple has activated around 275,000 iOS devices per day on average for the past 30 days with a peak of almost 300,000 iOS devices per day on a few of those days. And Apple has 300,000 apps on its App Store." (Source: http://seekingalpha.com/article/230710-apple-s-ceo-discusses-f4q10-results-earnings-call-transcript http://seekingalpha.com/article/230710-apple-s-ceo-discusses...) Why is the author rebuking Steve Jobs about "your figures include all iOS devices" when that is exactly what Steve Jobs actually said? Mr. Raphael even cites an article which has a disclaimer at the top that says "The story you're about to read is not (entirely) true" as evidence that Mr. Jobs doesn't allow the word "open" to be used in his house. This feels like manufactured criticism.
- jnovek 16y ago
  I believe that the author was implying that Steve Jobs carefully chose data to support an argument when other data would have better suited the comparison that he as making. Disagreements about whether he was trying to conceal his choice in data don't seem very relevant to me. EDIT: You are probably right about the author. He does seem to have an axe to grind. But I don't think it make his argument (in this case) less correct.
  - jmm 16y ago
    This reads like an argument analysis answer choice on the LSAT or GMAT. In a good way.
  - GHFigs 16y ago
    I believe that the author was implying that Steve Jobs carefully chose data to support an argument when other data would have better suited the comparison that he as making. Which is likewise wrong. Jobs cites total iOS activations because Apple makes no distinction. It's reflective of how the company that he represents actually thinks, and he used the data that they actually pay attention to. The author presumes that including iPads and iPods is somehow "cheating", but he's the one selectively picking only the market in which Android is succeeding. If you look at everything that runs either OS, Jobs is right. It's only if you selectively pick smartphones (and growth, specifically, as Apple's share is still greater) that Android looks good.
apl 16y ago
P.S. That was a nice black turtleneck you had on the other day. You should really consider wearing those more often. Well played, JR. [EDIT: Wait a minute: That classless hack makes a vacuous ad hominem attack his punchline, and I get voted down for pointing that out?]
- jordanmessina 16y ago
  You get my up-vote considering I copied that exact line to point it out until I saw you already did. This guy's Twitter handle is AndroidPower, I couldn't even take him serious writing about Jobs. Leave it to CW to get the best of the bunch!
rodericksilva 16y ago
I don't want to piss anybody off but I know a lot of Android users that would be using an iPhone but they are not on AT&T. If the iPhone was available on every carrier we would have real numbers. Plus, we ARE comparing OSes so platform does not matter. Right now it iOS vs Droid. The fact that Apple has managed to push it on multiple devices should not count against them...just as keeping it in one carrier has hurt them.
- gloob 16y ago
  If the iPhone was available on every carrier we would have real numbers. I disagree with the notion that the real numbers are somehow not real, and the real "real numbers" are the result of a "shoulda, coulda, woulda" situation.
  - isleyaardvark 16y ago
    The real numbers are certainly the most important, but there are confounding factors.
  - Locke1689 16y ago
    Depends on what you're trying to measure, right?
  - rodericksilva 16y ago
    Ok, you are right Gloob. Real is a bad choice of words. If the iPhone were available on every carrier their would be a lot more people using the iPhone. It's almost like its every carrier and every phone manufacturer vs Apple. Don't get me wrong, if I were in contract at Sprint or Verizon I would be on Droid also. I have invested money in applications (not a whole lot). Switching platforms would also mean finding new software and purchasing some of them.
- usaar333 16y ago
  You'd most likely still see Android winning. Android outsold the iPhone by a 2:1 ratio last quarter. AT&T has something like 35% of the US customers. I imagine they cover at least 90% of US customers very well (probably only Verizon is better). It is certainly possible that 25% of all Android users are not getting an iPhone simply because of carrier. I find this really hard to believe though.
yoak 16y ago
It always surprises me when someone mistakes this kind of smarminess for wit, especially if they appear to have learned to bathe and not make messes in the house otherwise. There were a couple of points in there that might have been pleasant to read under other circumstances.
sp4rki 16y ago
So it's alright for people to inflate Android's numbers by using all the phones, tablets, and e-readers when comparing them with the iPhone as was done some time ago, BUT when Apple adds the other iOS devices to the party (which off course makes a fairer comparison) and surpasses Android's numbers they're wrong? Jesus there are more than 60 phones right on Android, more than 25 tablets, and a couple of readers. How is that a fair comparison? In any case, the real issue is not iOS vs Android, who cares about adoption rates of an OS when you're in the business of selling the product itself. The iPhone is still the most popular and best selling smartphone, and the iPad does the same for tablets. That's not going to change overnight because 20 new crappy phones from China are now Android powered.
- usaar333 16y ago
  1) Comparing all Android devices to just the iPhone is also deceptive. 2) It is much more important to compare OS share to individual phone share. This is because it indicates the industry's trajectory far better. A user who has an Android phone and purchase another and not have to spend anytime learning a new framework; he'll highly likely buy a new Android phone (regardless of manufacturer) when he needs a new one. And on mobile devices, downloadable apps remain very important; the most popular OS (not phone!) will get the most developer attention, producing a virtuous cycle for the winner.
  - sp4rki 16y ago
    1) Uhm that is exactly what I said. It's common practice to compare Android as an OS adoption vs the iPhone adoption rates. Then when people do the same for Apple and add the other iOS devices, then articles as the one in the OP are born. Read my post again, because you're agreeing with me kind sir. 2) Here you're assuming that the users actually care about the iOS vs Android wars. A regular user who has an Android phone will not buy another Android phone because of its OS, they'll buy it because it's marketed as the successor of the phone they used before. By your example a regular user of Blackberry phones would easily move to another brand because it used the same Blackberry OS, or a iPhone user would move to a different phone manufacturer because he was told it also has iOS. This is simply not true. Nexus One users are more likely to buy a Nexus Two (and not a HTC Magic 2 in contrast) and iPhone4 users are more prone to buying a iPhone5 because of the product loyalty and brand popularity inherent in both choices. Industry trajectory is not measured by who has the most amount of devices with an specific OS out there, it's measured on who has the most amount of POPULAR devices period. Twelve years ago, people bought Nokia phones because they where the most popular ones around, not because they used Symbian OS. On the downloadable app part you seem to equate quantity with quality, which is flawed at best. Quality developers will flock to the platform that is more profitable and merchantable. You're right, the most popular platform is the one that will get more developer attention, but device share is not a measure of popularity in the mobile app sector. Profits are.
fleitz 16y ago
Steve jobs is right because as he's said numerous times, he doesn't give a shit about market share, what he gives a crap about are profit share and making great products, I suspect the latter is primarily to ensure the former. The low end of Apple's products are last year's model. With 3 generations going they don't need to make 'low-end' hardware, Moore's law takes care of that for them.
- random42 16y ago
  The term profit share makes me curious (about something). Can you please find the link where Jobs says so?
  - fleitz 16y ago
    http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09/21/pie-chart-apples-outrageous-share-of-the-mobile-industrys-profits/ http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09/21/pie-chart-apples-outr... An old one: http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Steve_Jobs_Talks_Market_Share_Innovation_With_UK_Newspaper/ http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Steve_Jobs_Talks_Mark... "If you went to BMW and asked them why they donit outsell the Ford Taurus, they would say they donit want to make that sort of car," says Mr Jobs. "Apple has 25 million customers around the world, and our goal is to give them the best personal computer that we can, with the best operating system and some of the best applications."
    - random42 16y ago
      Thanks.
- easp 16y ago
  I suspect that you have it backwards. Making great products comes first. Profitability validates that, and makes it possible to keep making great products.
Pewpewarrows 16y ago
What I find hilarious is when people say in the same sentence that it's not fair to compare Android numbers to Apple's because iPhone isn't on multiple carriers, then in the next breath say that comparing Android to iOS on all devices is fair and balanced. You can't have it both ways.
- ugh 16y ago
  Which people and where?
- ceejayoz 16y ago
  There are Android tablets. Why is it unfair to compare the Android OS to the iOS?
  - Pewpewarrows 16y ago
    Google has made public announcements saying Android isn't ready for the Tablet yet. Just because some manufacturers managed to get it working on some doesn't make it equivalent to the sponsored and ready-for-retail iPad. It's the equivalent of someone hacking the iPhone to work on Verizon and then Google trying to claim that the carrier argument is now null and void. Even if you factor in tablet activations with phones, Android wins. Why?... You're also conveniently ignoring the iPod Touch. iPhone sales have historically accounted for only a little over half of total iOS devices. In terms of phones, Android activations dominantly win, no matter how Jobs feels like playing around with the numbers.

61 points by Garbage 16y ago

preek 16y ago

I'm concerned with the authors heart rate. I hope he's well. The article certainly has truth in it, but I would propose a rename to: Random ramblings from an Android user. Also, I propose the author might take a look into Paul Grahams essay on "How to disagree"[1]. 1. http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

SmokenJoe 16y ago
That is a good article. I did not see much point to the computer world opinion piece.
drats 16y ago
I am not sure trolls have a pulse. Perhaps you are detecting the speed with which his editor patting him on the back with all the page views? That said, I agree with every delicious word of the article (I am rabidly anti-Apple) and enjoyed reading it and enjoyed even more the twisted outrage I imagined would be forming (foaming?) in the minds of certain people as they read it, and then I had to chuckle a bit as I now see said people freaking out and firing madly into the jungle, Predator-style. Except this type of pulse-free troll doesn't bleed and you can't kill it. And no matter how many times this is pointed out the pro and anti Apple trolls will continue and there will be no light, Nor certitude, nor peace, nor help for pain; And we are here as on a darkling plain Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight, Where ignorant commentators clash by night.
Dbug 16y ago
If the author wants to rant, I would think digging into the motives for Apple backing away from Java support might be more fertile territory. At least it'd have more substance to it that what amount to PR positions on numbers. Things to ponder... Could Apple be trying to throw a wet towel on doing Java development for other platforms (Android in particular)? Of course if they're wanting more of a closed system, they're probably also aware that some of the more popular peer to peer apps use Java too. (Limewire / Frostwire, Vuze / Azureus). Between not being allowed on the store, Java probably not being installed by default soon, and questionable robustness of future Java options, they've thrown a wet towel on the sharing apps too. It's not like the cost of paying developers to work on Java is a burden for Apple, and it doesn't have the reputation Flash does for crashing/slowing the system. Vulnerabilities could be an excuse to stay clear of Java, but like Flash, if users have it installed and have to get updates outside of the (semi) automatic software updates, users are less likely to be up to date, not more. If the author wants a little speculation for his rant, he ought to ask questions like will Steve kill X11? The Mac with OS X has had a lot of respect as a stable very interoperable do-everything platform. If Apple wants to change that, some of us will be kicking and screaming. Apple has been able to give users an extra nudge towards new hardware by limiting the length of time old hardware sees major OS updates. (The 1985 Mac Plus was still supported under System 7.5, well past the five year period seen now). Killing support for something without the justification of certain hardware being inadequate is a tougher pill to swallow. If Apple goes too far, they'll certainly lose more science/engineering types to Linux.
- pohl 16y ago
  It's not like the cost of paying developers to work on Java is a burden for Apple, Perhaps, but since Oracle is trying to monetize Java through litigation and premium JVMs, it makes sense for Apple to stand back and let Oracle do the porting & maintenance.
- philwelch 16y ago
  Things to ponder... Could Apple be trying to throw a wet towel on doing Java development for other platforms (Android in particular)? No, because Android already distributes an SDK for Mac, and can easily deploy whatever Java stuff they need along with it: http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html * Of course if they're wanting more of a closed system, they're probably also aware that some of the more popular peer to peer apps use Java too. (Limewire / Frostwire, Vuze / Azureus). Between not being allowed on the store, Java probably not being installed by default soon, and questionable robustness of future Java options, they've thrown a wet towel on the sharing apps too.* Transmission, the best BitTorrent client, runs natively on Mac.

davidedicillo 16y ago

Why people can't accept the fact that Apple doesn't care about having biggest market share. Of course if they can they'll be happy to take it like for the mp3 players market. At the moment, looking at the numbers, Android is eating market share mostly from Apple's other competitors. Remember, this is not a race to be the company who makes the most money, it's just about making tons of money, and this is what Apple cares about. Look at the computer marktet, they don't care in selling more pc than Dell, they care of making a boatload of profit, even with their 7%.

w1ntermute 16y ago
> Apple doesn't care about having biggest market share If this is true, why did Jobs make such a big deal about market share during the earnings call? Shouldn't he have just ignored that topic?
- KirinDave 16y ago
  Probably because everyone else seems to think that market share is so important. I'm not sure why. Look at Apple's current position as a minority PC vendor. I think Steve is trying to make the point that the iOS ecosystem is huge, healthy, and a much larger play than a smartphone OS.
- davidedicillo 16y ago
  if the iPhone had infinite color models, he would probably highlight that every chance he had, but that doesn't make it a priority in their strategy. But of course if you are passing a company like RIM that represented the concept of smartphone for years, that's something you want to tell people about.
- protomyth 16y ago
  You don't ignore the topic when your on an earnings call unless you want some really bad articles written. You could do like he did with the flash question ("we love flash memory") or you can give them some stats. The actual quotes (not the summarized crud in the article) were about on par with what was said about Apple at the last Google event. The big take away from the call really wasn't Android versus iPhone, it was iPhone versus Blackberry. The "aw shucks" businesses are adopting iPhone / iPad all on their own without an Apple push is a pretty big shot at RIM. Add to that the whole 7" screen thing, it really looks like Apple is thinking of RIM customers as up for grabs. I find it funny that a column called "Android Power" isn't talking about cool Android stuff. Seems like another "I need some page views" article.

mattdonahoe 16y ago

Did not know about the TweetDeck thing.

zaphar 16y ago

I found his ramblings on it Just Working to be of interest. My experience with getting an IPod to just work was the same. Getting music and apps on the Android phone is far easier than the IPod. Their stance of requiring the ITunes app really harms the User Experience there. It actually suprises me that they have let it go like this for so long. I would have expected from Apple's reputation that they would have made it much easier by now.

cshenoy 16y ago
I agree but I would assume it has to do with anti-piracy measures. Being the number-one music vendor in the US has its downsides since all the record companies (and RIAA) have a vested interest in it. Though I could be wrong.

chadp 16y ago

Ok, this computerworld kid has a couple of points but the writing is drawn out drivel. The personal dig about steve's wardrobe was totally un-needed and unclassy. Steve Jobs has masterminded the most amazing turnaround story probably in history. Have some respect at least. What an idiot this writer is.

drats 16y ago
You say that the dig about the wardrobe is "un-needed and unclassy" and then go on to say the writer is an "idiot". I think you need to look in the mirror and see that the pot is just as black as the kettle.
bryanlarsen 16y ago
No, it wasn't a great joke, but the funniest part about it is that it came at the end of a long article that would have had Apple fan-boys so steaming mad that they would be unable to rationally respond to it. And there is nothing funnier than watching normally rational people so angry that they're irrational. (And thus unable to rationally respond to this comment, making the whole situation worse, but even so much more funny.)

brown9-2 16y ago

JR Raphael: "First, when you say that Apple has more daily activations than Android, your figures include all iOS devices: iPhones, iPads, and iPods. The Android figures we've been looking at so far focus solely on phones." The actual quote from Steve Jobs on the earnings call: "Well, what about Google? Last week, Eric Schmidt reiterated that they are activating 200,000 Android devices per day. And have around 90,000 apps in their App Store. For comparison, Apple has activated around 275,000 iOS devices per day on average for the past 30 days with a peak of almost 300,000 iOS devices per day on a few of those days. And Apple has 300,000 apps on its App Store." (Source: http://seekingalpha.com/article/230710-apple-s-ceo-discusses-f4q10-results-earnings-call-transcript http://seekingalpha.com/article/230710-apple-s-ceo-discusses...) Why is the author rebuking Steve Jobs about "your figures include all iOS devices" when that is exactly what Steve Jobs actually said? Mr. Raphael even cites an article which has a disclaimer at the top that says "The story you're about to read is not (entirely) true" as evidence that Mr. Jobs doesn't allow the word "open" to be used in his house. This feels like manufactured criticism.

jnovek 16y ago
I believe that the author was implying that Steve Jobs carefully chose data to support an argument when other data would have better suited the comparison that he as making. Disagreements about whether he was trying to conceal his choice in data don't seem very relevant to me. EDIT: You are probably right about the author. He does seem to have an axe to grind. But I don't think it make his argument (in this case) less correct.
- jmm 16y ago
  This reads like an argument analysis answer choice on the LSAT or GMAT. In a good way.
- GHFigs 16y ago
  I believe that the author was implying that Steve Jobs carefully chose data to support an argument when other data would have better suited the comparison that he as making. Which is likewise wrong. Jobs cites total iOS activations because Apple makes no distinction. It's reflective of how the company that he represents actually thinks, and he used the data that they actually pay attention to. The author presumes that including iPads and iPods is somehow "cheating", but he's the one selectively picking only the market in which Android is succeeding. If you look at everything that runs either OS, Jobs is right. It's only if you selectively pick smartphones (and growth, specifically, as Apple's share is still greater) that Android looks good.

apl 16y ago

P.S. That was a nice black turtleneck you had on the other day. You should really consider wearing those more often. Well played, JR. [EDIT: Wait a minute: That classless hack makes a vacuous ad hominem attack his punchline, and I get voted down for pointing that out?]

jordanmessina 16y ago
You get my up-vote considering I copied that exact line to point it out until I saw you already did. This guy's Twitter handle is AndroidPower, I couldn't even take him serious writing about Jobs. Leave it to CW to get the best of the bunch!

rodericksilva 16y ago

I don't want to piss anybody off but I know a lot of Android users that would be using an iPhone but they are not on AT&T. If the iPhone was available on every carrier we would have real numbers. Plus, we ARE comparing OSes so platform does not matter. Right now it iOS vs Droid. The fact that Apple has managed to push it on multiple devices should not count against them...just as keeping it in one carrier has hurt them.

gloob 16y ago
If the iPhone was available on every carrier we would have real numbers. I disagree with the notion that the real numbers are somehow not real, and the real "real numbers" are the result of a "shoulda, coulda, woulda" situation.
- isleyaardvark 16y ago
  The real numbers are certainly the most important, but there are confounding factors.
- Locke1689 16y ago
  Depends on what you're trying to measure, right?
- rodericksilva 16y ago
  Ok, you are right Gloob. Real is a bad choice of words. If the iPhone were available on every carrier their would be a lot more people using the iPhone. It's almost like its every carrier and every phone manufacturer vs Apple. Don't get me wrong, if I were in contract at Sprint or Verizon I would be on Droid also. I have invested money in applications (not a whole lot). Switching platforms would also mean finding new software and purchasing some of them.
usaar333 16y ago
You'd most likely still see Android winning. Android outsold the iPhone by a 2:1 ratio last quarter. AT&T has something like 35% of the US customers. I imagine they cover at least 90% of US customers very well (probably only Verizon is better). It is certainly possible that 25% of all Android users are not getting an iPhone simply because of carrier. I find this really hard to believe though.

yoak 16y ago

It always surprises me when someone mistakes this kind of smarminess for wit, especially if they appear to have learned to bathe and not make messes in the house otherwise. There were a couple of points in there that might have been pleasant to read under other circumstances.

sp4rki 16y ago

So it's alright for people to inflate Android's numbers by using all the phones, tablets, and e-readers when comparing them with the iPhone as was done some time ago, BUT when Apple adds the other iOS devices to the party (which off course makes a fairer comparison) and surpasses Android's numbers they're wrong? Jesus there are more than 60 phones right on Android, more than 25 tablets, and a couple of readers. How is that a fair comparison? In any case, the real issue is not iOS vs Android, who cares about adoption rates of an OS when you're in the business of selling the product itself. The iPhone is still the most popular and best selling smartphone, and the iPad does the same for tablets. That's not going to change overnight because 20 new crappy phones from China are now Android powered.

usaar333 16y ago
1) Comparing all Android devices to just the iPhone is also deceptive. 2) It is much more important to compare OS share to individual phone share. This is because it indicates the industry's trajectory far better. A user who has an Android phone and purchase another and not have to spend anytime learning a new framework; he'll highly likely buy a new Android phone (regardless of manufacturer) when he needs a new one. And on mobile devices, downloadable apps remain very important; the most popular OS (not phone!) will get the most developer attention, producing a virtuous cycle for the winner.
- sp4rki 16y ago
  1) Uhm that is exactly what I said. It's common practice to compare Android as an OS adoption vs the iPhone adoption rates. Then when people do the same for Apple and add the other iOS devices, then articles as the one in the OP are born. Read my post again, because you're agreeing with me kind sir. 2) Here you're assuming that the users actually care about the iOS vs Android wars. A regular user who has an Android phone will not buy another Android phone because of its OS, they'll buy it because it's marketed as the successor of the phone they used before. By your example a regular user of Blackberry phones would easily move to another brand because it used the same Blackberry OS, or a iPhone user would move to a different phone manufacturer because he was told it also has iOS. This is simply not true. Nexus One users are more likely to buy a Nexus Two (and not a HTC Magic 2 in contrast) and iPhone4 users are more prone to buying a iPhone5 because of the product loyalty and brand popularity inherent in both choices. Industry trajectory is not measured by who has the most amount of devices with an specific OS out there, it's measured on who has the most amount of POPULAR devices period. Twelve years ago, people bought Nokia phones because they where the most popular ones around, not because they used Symbian OS. On the downloadable app part you seem to equate quantity with quality, which is flawed at best. Quality developers will flock to the platform that is more profitable and merchantable. You're right, the most popular platform is the one that will get more developer attention, but device share is not a measure of popularity in the mobile app sector. Profits are.

fleitz 16y ago

Steve jobs is right because as he's said numerous times, he doesn't give a shit about market share, what he gives a crap about are profit share and making great products, I suspect the latter is primarily to ensure the former. The low end of Apple's products are last year's model. With 3 generations going they don't need to make 'low-end' hardware, Moore's law takes care of that for them.

random42 16y ago
The term profit share makes me curious (about something). Can you please find the link where Jobs says so?
- fleitz 16y ago
  http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09/21/pie-chart-apples-outrageous-share-of-the-mobile-industrys-profits/ http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/09/21/pie-chart-apples-outr... An old one: http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Steve_Jobs_Talks_Market_Share_Innovation_With_UK_Newspaper/ http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/Steve_Jobs_Talks_Mark... "If you went to BMW and asked them why they donit outsell the Ford Taurus, they would say they donit want to make that sort of car," says Mr Jobs. "Apple has 25 million customers around the world, and our goal is to give them the best personal computer that we can, with the best operating system and some of the best applications."
  - random42 16y ago
    Thanks.
easp 16y ago
I suspect that you have it backwards. Making great products comes first. Profitability validates that, and makes it possible to keep making great products.

Pewpewarrows 16y ago

What I find hilarious is when people say in the same sentence that it's not fair to compare Android numbers to Apple's because iPhone isn't on multiple carriers, then in the next breath say that comparing Android to iOS on all devices is fair and balanced. You can't have it both ways.

ugh 16y ago
Which people and where?
ceejayoz 16y ago
There are Android tablets. Why is it unfair to compare the Android OS to the iOS?
- Pewpewarrows 16y ago
  Google has made public announcements saying Android isn't ready for the Tablet yet. Just because some manufacturers managed to get it working on some doesn't make it equivalent to the sponsored and ready-for-retail iPad. It's the equivalent of someone hacking the iPhone to work on Verizon and then Google trying to claim that the carrier argument is now null and void. Even if you factor in tablet activations with phones, Android wins. Why?... You're also conveniently ignoring the iPod Touch. iPhone sales have historically accounted for only a little over half of total iOS devices. In terms of phones, Android activations dominantly win, no matter how Jobs feels like playing around with the numbers.