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> It's a total mess and hopelessly complex for the average consumer. Sounds like something the people on this forum can help improve.

by m1sta_ 8y ago

pjc50 8y ago
It's not a technological problem but a political one: the obfuscatory pricing is deliberate. Maybe you could have "fighting hospital billing as a service", but that's definitely going to need a chunk of human labour on top of whatever AI assistance you apply.
- jmalicki 8y ago
  But technology can help patients unite against hospitals... Just like Yelp crowdsources the restaurant experience, or Glassdoor crowdsources salaries,and anotherss could collect crowdsourced medical bills and predict prices for procedures.
- dig1 8y ago
  Is there any way this could be represented via interactive graph? We were able to tame much complex stuff than deliberate obfuscation by people not aware what tech can do. I guess there is not enough incentive ($$) to solve this problem.
  - willvarfar 8y ago
    The $$ is being made by the hospitals See https://www.vox.com/health-care/2018/12/18/18134825/emergency-room-bills-health-care-costs-america https://www.vox.com/health-care/2018/12/18/18134825/emergenc... to start digging into the mess
- crispyambulance 8y ago
  I agree that the problem is political. While it might be nice in the short term to see some technological approaches to address the mess, the solution is ALSO political, NOT technological. Making the information public, however obfuscated, will enable journalists and activists to systematically expose this problem for what it is and that's the first step towards fixing it. The next thing that will happen is that many more people will be able to win massive lawsuits which is the only recourse the healthcare/insurance industrial complex understands.
- epsontmt88vi 8y ago
  just make robot politicians, duh
dmitriid 8y ago
So, somehow technology can help educate ~300 million people about insurance, procedure costs, payments, and also provide medical education to those 300 million people so that they can wrap their head around the necessary medical lingo?
justaguyhere 8y ago
Sounds like something the people on this forum can help improve. A lot of the problems average consumers face are political/social and not technical (technical problems associated with these issues were solved decades ago). For example, it takes 10 days for my bank to send funds from U.S to my home country. Why 10 days? I have no idea. What I do know is 10 days is extremely unreasonable at the end of 2018. I filled a form and put "none" for "any visible marks like scars, tattoo etc?" question, because I honestly have none. The form got rejected, now I have to "creatively" answer this question. When my dad was in the hospital, I got so many bills - I had a lot of trouble looking through those and locating errors (we were charged extra and the only way to find those was to painstakingly go through the bills line by line). I had no energy or interest to do it (when my dad was in the ICU) - every single thing was complex, needlessly so, and was frustrating to the point of tears. And then comes insurance - ever tried post processing a claim? Wouldn't wish it on my enemy. There are hundreds and hundreds of examples like these - hospitals, courts/police, banks (even the private ones), airports, any government office in general ... it seems as if they relish in wasting average person's time and money. No amount of software/ML/AI etc can fix these, until the mindset is changed for good. A large group of people owe their careers and salaries to these inefficiencies, they won't give it up without a serious fight. For example, filing taxes in US - there is no way H&R block, turbo tax etc will go down without a fight, it is just not in their interest to have a simpler tax code.
- thelasthuman 8y ago
  It makes me depressed to have to fill out some form with information the government already has just to do my taxes. Just send me my return and I can dispute it if I don't like the result. I guess there is political pressure to make the process as annoying as possible, and not just from tax services corporations.

> It's a total mess and hopelessly complex for the average consumer. Sounds like something the people on this forum can help improve.

by m1sta_ 8y ago

> It's a total mess and hopelessly complex for the average consumer. Sounds like something the people on this forum can help improve.

pjc50 8y ago

It's not a technological problem but a political one: the obfuscatory pricing is deliberate. Maybe you could have "fighting hospital billing as a service", but that's definitely going to need a chunk of human labour on top of whatever AI assistance you apply.

jmalicki 8y ago
But technology can help patients unite against hospitals... Just like Yelp crowdsources the restaurant experience, or Glassdoor crowdsources salaries,and anotherss could collect crowdsourced medical bills and predict prices for procedures.
dig1 8y ago
Is there any way this could be represented via interactive graph? We were able to tame much complex stuff than deliberate obfuscation by people not aware what tech can do. I guess there is not enough incentive ($$) to solve this problem.
- willvarfar 8y ago
  The $$ is being made by the hospitals See https://www.vox.com/health-care/2018/12/18/18134825/emergency-room-bills-health-care-costs-america https://www.vox.com/health-care/2018/12/18/18134825/emergenc... to start digging into the mess
crispyambulance 8y ago
I agree that the problem is political. While it might be nice in the short term to see some technological approaches to address the mess, the solution is ALSO political, NOT technological. Making the information public, however obfuscated, will enable journalists and activists to systematically expose this problem for what it is and that's the first step towards fixing it. The next thing that will happen is that many more people will be able to win massive lawsuits which is the only recourse the healthcare/insurance industrial complex understands.
epsontmt88vi 8y ago
just make robot politicians, duh

dmitriid 8y ago

So, somehow technology can help educate ~300 million people about insurance, procedure costs, payments, and also provide medical education to those 300 million people so that they can wrap their head around the necessary medical lingo?

justaguyhere 8y ago

Sounds like something the people on this forum can help improve. A lot of the problems average consumers face are political/social and not technical (technical problems associated with these issues were solved decades ago). For example, it takes 10 days for my bank to send funds from U.S to my home country. Why 10 days? I have no idea. What I do know is 10 days is extremely unreasonable at the end of 2018. I filled a form and put "none" for "any visible marks like scars, tattoo etc?" question, because I honestly have none. The form got rejected, now I have to "creatively" answer this question. When my dad was in the hospital, I got so many bills - I had a lot of trouble looking through those and locating errors (we were charged extra and the only way to find those was to painstakingly go through the bills line by line). I had no energy or interest to do it (when my dad was in the ICU) - every single thing was complex, needlessly so, and was frustrating to the point of tears. And then comes insurance - ever tried post processing a claim? Wouldn't wish it on my enemy. There are hundreds and hundreds of examples like these - hospitals, courts/police, banks (even the private ones), airports, any government office in general ... it seems as if they relish in wasting average person's time and money. No amount of software/ML/AI etc can fix these, until the mindset is changed for good. A large group of people owe their careers and salaries to these inefficiencies, they won't give it up without a serious fight. For example, filing taxes in US - there is no way H&R block, turbo tax etc will go down without a fight, it is just not in their interest to have a simpler tax code.

thelasthuman 8y ago
It makes me depressed to have to fill out some form with information the government already has just to do my taxes. Just send me my return and I can dispute it if I don't like the result. I guess there is political pressure to make the process as annoying as possible, and not just from tax services corporations.