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To color it in with an anecdote as a 27 year old who grew up in the suburbs and spent the last 7-ish years of my life in city centers: my personal preference is
by osdiab 8y ago
To color it in with an anecdote as a 27 year old who grew up in the suburbs and spent the last 7-ish years of my life in city centers: my personal preference is just that I like the presence of other people.
I don’t feel bothered by lots of people walking around the streets, hearing their conversations, living in proximity to others; and I only feel marginally bothered by crowds and packed trains, definitely less than I enjoy the bustle.
In fact even if I don’t talk to a single person or enter a single establishment it just makes me feel energized to be around it. Bars are antisocial and I don’t go often, but even when I’m just walking past one on the way home, the atmosphere around them makes me feel happy (and you can be social at a reasonable volume with all the smokers and loiterers outside if that’s what you like).
There’s something deeply depressing to me about the American suburban life I grew up in: always deserted, copy-pasted strip malls; giant, humanless roads clogged with hurtling metal death traps; cul-de-sacs of strangers spending large fractions of their lives solitary in cars.
(I do acknowledge it can be different to some extent—the ethnic suburbs in LA are vibrant in pockets, for example—but even in the best cases they’re still pretty desolate to me.)
Where I came from in the Midwest, my life involved never talking to anybody within a 20 mile radius of my house except in business transactions, and only rarely even seeing my neighbors. As a child I didn’t mind, but after having lived differently there’s no way I’d choose to go back unless it’s prohibitively expensive to choose otherwise (which is, to my knowledge, a major driver of people moving out of cities into suburbs).
Separately, I personally dislike driving and greatly prefer public transportation. It’s far more comfortable (not much acceleration and far more space than a tiny car unless it’s rush hour), I don’t have to pay attention to anything except where I’m getting off, it’s super cheap, no risk of accidents or headaches from other drivers incompetence, I don’t have to ever find nor pay for parking, I don’t have to worry about the safety of my personal property, I don’t have to worry about my car breaking down out of nowhere, I can drink and not personally endanger myself, the list or positives is basically endless to me but I’ll stop there.
But that all said San Francisco isn’t that dense (in my opinion), has such glaring social issues, is ludicrously expensive and doesn’t have particularly good infrastructure/transit. Given that I can get all of those things automatically by living in pretty much any major east Asian or European city, that’s my preference, but the one and only thing drawing me back is the concentration of jobs and money.
I weaned myself off San Francisco and lived in east Asia for a couple years, but I found myself back now for a job. Hopefully not too long from now I’ll be able to head back over, or at least work remote for a significant part of my time.
- keerthiko 8y agoThis is an echo of my thoughts, as a 29yo. I grew up in a podunk Middle Eastern "city" (it was the national capital, but...) which can be geographically approximated by an american suburb lining a single, not-so-important highway. I realized I loved the city (for exactly the reasons you mentioned) only when I spent a month in the countryside of Thailand after 2 years of SF. I then spent a considerable time in the major East Asian metropolises, before returning here to rejoin my cofounders. I am far happier than I would be in any non-metropolis, but I can't stop thinking of all the ways SF is just subpar in all the things that make a city great except for interesting conversations with intelligent people, pro-entrepreneurial vibe (minus the VC/fundraising noise), and technical prowess. Being near my cofounders is invaluable and my heart may be in SF for being the first metropolis I got a chance to get attached to, but I am eagerly looking for a way to live 9 months of the year in a more functional metropolis like NYC, and come here on workations while crashing with friends.
- osdiab 8y agoYep I think we see eye to eye on all of that. With a clarification that SF is great in particular for having professional, tech- or entrepreneurial-focused conversations, but that social scene is pretty weak otherwise. I've found that, except with those close to me, my conversations in the Bay Area very quickly transform into talking about what you're working on or what credentials you have. People here generally don't seem to want to talk about much else, whereas my experience chatting up strangers in Tokyo and Shanghai is that people actively avoid talking about their work, and my friends in Bangalore compare the social scene there vs SF like night and day. And as far as I can tell a lot of my friends have the same thoughts—it's not just Bay Area natives who can't afford the cost of living who leave the Bay Area for greener pastures, but also tons of disillusioned techies themselves—so the people deriding Californians in this article might rightfully complain about that group. Thankfully being in software provides a benefit inaccessible to most—the flexibility to work remote. So I think that lifestyle is definitely doable, and I intend to make it happen one way or another.
- keerthiko 8y ago