4 ms·

I appreciate you writing this and I want to give you a worthy response. > Except that if that small group of people has less actual power, protesting to them c

by dgzl 8y ago

I appreciate you writing this and I want to give you a worthy response. > Except that if that small group of people has less actual power, protesting to them can only produce less of an effect. And that they have less power means they will be less likely to cause the problems, but.. > I don't see how corporations are exempt from this pattern either. They're not, any way you look at it. You can't regulate evil away unfortunately. It doesn't matter that regulations you throw at a lucrative company, they will invest incredible amounts of money to try and weasel around it. > How and where do you effectively bring forth grievances when the trouble is that your employer is only paying you enough to go to work the next day? Where would you do that under today's highly regulated government? People are struggling in this very way today also. What right does a person have to more money from their employer than what the consenting adults have agreed upon? Assuming you're talking about raising the minimum wage, I want you to consider something. The next time the idea comes up, try thinking about minimum wage from the standpoint of a small business owner. There's a lot more of them (and they're more important to the average local economy) than MegaCorps. > The FISA court is a bad example here because it doesn't reflect the context of what I think we're discussing, namely regulations I'm not only talking about regulations. When I say 'big' government, I'm including the idea of them becoming 'bigger' than our natural born rights and the Constitution. > My main point is simply that when regulations are minimal, citizens have virtually no recourse against the power-consolidated megacorporations that run their lives. I'm less interested in no-regulations than I am giving States their rights to regulate back (along with the tax dollars). It's much easier for citizens to control and customize their own State laws to work for them (i.e. better local Democracy). When the Feds take over and centralize power, the result is usually expensive crap. I'm actually a firm believer in the 10th Amendment of the Bill of Rights, which is supposed to a) -strictly- limit the power of the federal government, and pass liberty to the people or regulation by state government. This is important because protesting your state government is infinitely easier and more effective than protesting the seemingly monolith that is our federal government. As an interesting note, I get the feeling many people see our government power as a pyramid, where the Feds are at the top, the State is in the middle, and the citizens are at the bottom. However A10 literally sets a different framework: the Feds have extremely limited power (imagine chains), the States can regulate their own laws, and anything not forbidden is freedom for the people. [0][1] > consolidated megacorporations that run their lives. I manage to run my own life every day without any help from MegaCorp. You should try it. > Cable companies have created de-facto monopolies in many places in the US based on your location. I agree, they should be broken up. > Well, not exactly. We vote in representatives, we can change our laws and amend the constitution. And the point I'm trying to make is that if you shift power from Feds to State, the citizens can easier control their laws, as granted in A10, and create something that works much better for them, on their terms, with more or less regulation depending where you are. [0]: "The powers not delegated to the United States [Feds] by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

ppseafield 8y ago
Thanks for taking the time to respond. It seems like you have shifted your argument from small government to small federal government. Do you also suggest the size of the state governments should be small as well? > You can't regulate evil away unfortunately. It doesn't matter that regulations you throw at a lucrative company, they will invest incredible amounts of money to try and weasel around it. This is pretty hand-wavey: Of course corporations will try to get around regulations. 1) Removing those regulations federally won't make their behavior any better, and 2) shifting responsibility to the states creates the same problem. > Where would you do that under today's highly regulated government? People are struggling in this very way today also. Not because of regulation. People are supposed to influence policy through their representatives, but they've mostly been bought and paid for by corporate interests. > What right does a person have to more money from their employer than what the consenting adults have agreed upon? These agreements don't happen in a vacuum. Many people are forced into poor-paying jobs to feed themselves and their family. Then corporate practices make sure they stay there. > Assuming you're talking about raising the minimum wage, I want you to consider something. The next time the idea comes up, try thinking about minimum wage from the standpoint of a small business owner. There's a lot more of them (and they're more important to the average local economy) than MegaCorps. I never mentioned raising the minimum wage. However, for small businesses, when the minimum wage goes up, they raise their prices. More people can afford higher prices because the minimum wage goes up. Inflation happens whether or not you raise the minimum wage. Additionally there's plenty of room for regulations that protect small businesses from MegaCorps' predatory practices and leveraged monopolies/oligopolies. > I manage to run my own life every day without any help from MegaCorp. You should try it. And from the perspective of a 19th century coal miner... > And the point I'm trying to make is that if you shift power from Feds to State, the citizens can easier control their laws, as granted in A10, and create something that works much better for them, on their terms, with more or less regulation depending where you are. If your state is badly gerrymandered, and the reps are bought (much more cheaply) by corporate interests, you still won't get that.
- dgzl 8y ago
  Definitely, and I think this is the last level so I'll try to make a better conclusion. > It seems like you have shifted your argument from small government to small federal government. Do you also suggest the size of the state governments should be small as well? I suggest the people of the state decide their own fate and are protected from Federal overreach, as is their right. > 1) Removing those regulations federally won't make their behavior any better and 2) shifting responsibility to the states creates the same problem. You see this as a problem, I see this as a solution. Each state has its own culture and its own needs, and the Feds are incredibly insensitive to that. > People are supposed to influence policy through their representatives, but they've mostly been bought and paid for by corporate interests. And if states have more power over themselves, the people could more successfully protest policy in their favor. It's much harder to fight MegaCorp at Federal level than at home state level. > I never mentioned raising the minimum wage. However, for small businesses, when the minimum wage goes up, they raise their prices. More people can afford higher prices because the minimum wage goes up. As someone who has family that owns a small restaurant, I have to disagree with your simple assessment. The employer has to start paying the higher wage well before they receive the benefits you're suggesting, and we're really hoping that customers don't fall off because of the higher cost. And yes: some do. Not to mention this isn't an easy segue like inflation, it's a direct hike. Not to mention the business now has to reprint their menus, great. > Inflation happens whether or not you raise the minimum wage. Would you be surprised if I said I was a fan of returning the the Gold Standard? > Additionally there's plenty of room for regulations that protect small businesses from MegaCorps' predatory practices and leveraged monopolies/oligopolies. I agree, at the local level. You know, customized. Local Democracy. Not one-size-fits-all. > And from the perspective of a 19th century coal miner... I imagine coal mining was lucrative, and the worker was well aware of danger. However I also understand that with innovation and new markets, undiscovered risks are waiting to be understood. > If your state is badly gerrymandered, and the reps are bought (much more cheaply) by corporate interests, you still won't get that. I believe that given back power, states would absolutely flourish and thrive. Well actually, I think we've gotten really far off track with the framework of the Constitution, and that's why things are difficult. It feels like a square peg/triangle hole situation. I don't mind regulations, but I want the people and their elected representatives to be in charge, as is their right. I just wish people would stop pretending like throwing more regulations into the mix will solve everything. I also wish people would admit that regulations have side-effects as well, that disproportionately affect those in need. I feel inclined to cite something about the failed Drug War, and how local communities have been standing up the the Feds with their own opposing but better policy, but I'll leave this instead. Something we can handle at the local level, but good luck getting the Feds to help. Be sure and follow the Facebook post at the bottom of the article. https://www.activistpost.com/2018/02/cops-raid-licensed-chefs-home-steal-cooking-equipment-feeding-homeless.html https://www.activistpost.com/2018/02/cops-raid-licensed-chef...

by dgzl 8y ago

ppseafield 8y ago

Thanks for taking the time to respond. It seems like you have shifted your argument from small government to small federal government. Do you also suggest the size of the state governments should be small as well? > You can't regulate evil away unfortunately. It doesn't matter that regulations you throw at a lucrative company, they will invest incredible amounts of money to try and weasel around it. This is pretty hand-wavey: Of course corporations will try to get around regulations. 1) Removing those regulations federally won't make their behavior any better, and 2) shifting responsibility to the states creates the same problem. > Where would you do that under today's highly regulated government? People are struggling in this very way today also. Not because of regulation. People are supposed to influence policy through their representatives, but they've mostly been bought and paid for by corporate interests. > What right does a person have to more money from their employer than what the consenting adults have agreed upon? These agreements don't happen in a vacuum. Many people are forced into poor-paying jobs to feed themselves and their family. Then corporate practices make sure they stay there. > Assuming you're talking about raising the minimum wage, I want you to consider something. The next time the idea comes up, try thinking about minimum wage from the standpoint of a small business owner. There's a lot more of them (and they're more important to the average local economy) than MegaCorps. I never mentioned raising the minimum wage. However, for small businesses, when the minimum wage goes up, they raise their prices. More people can afford higher prices because the minimum wage goes up. Inflation happens whether or not you raise the minimum wage. Additionally there's plenty of room for regulations that protect small businesses from MegaCorps' predatory practices and leveraged monopolies/oligopolies. > I manage to run my own life every day without any help from MegaCorp. You should try it. And from the perspective of a 19th century coal miner... > And the point I'm trying to make is that if you shift power from Feds to State, the citizens can easier control their laws, as granted in A10, and create something that works much better for them, on their terms, with more or less regulation depending where you are. If your state is badly gerrymandered, and the reps are bought (much more cheaply) by corporate interests, you still won't get that.

dgzl 8y ago
Definitely, and I think this is the last level so I'll try to make a better conclusion. > It seems like you have shifted your argument from small government to small federal government. Do you also suggest the size of the state governments should be small as well? I suggest the people of the state decide their own fate and are protected from Federal overreach, as is their right. > 1) Removing those regulations federally won't make their behavior any better and 2) shifting responsibility to the states creates the same problem. You see this as a problem, I see this as a solution. Each state has its own culture and its own needs, and the Feds are incredibly insensitive to that. > People are supposed to influence policy through their representatives, but they've mostly been bought and paid for by corporate interests. And if states have more power over themselves, the people could more successfully protest policy in their favor. It's much harder to fight MegaCorp at Federal level than at home state level. > I never mentioned raising the minimum wage. However, for small businesses, when the minimum wage goes up, they raise their prices. More people can afford higher prices because the minimum wage goes up. As someone who has family that owns a small restaurant, I have to disagree with your simple assessment. The employer has to start paying the higher wage well before they receive the benefits you're suggesting, and we're really hoping that customers don't fall off because of the higher cost. And yes: some do. Not to mention this isn't an easy segue like inflation, it's a direct hike. Not to mention the business now has to reprint their menus, great. > Inflation happens whether or not you raise the minimum wage. Would you be surprised if I said I was a fan of returning the the Gold Standard? > Additionally there's plenty of room for regulations that protect small businesses from MegaCorps' predatory practices and leveraged monopolies/oligopolies. I agree, at the local level. You know, customized. Local Democracy. Not one-size-fits-all. > And from the perspective of a 19th century coal miner... I imagine coal mining was lucrative, and the worker was well aware of danger. However I also understand that with innovation and new markets, undiscovered risks are waiting to be understood. > If your state is badly gerrymandered, and the reps are bought (much more cheaply) by corporate interests, you still won't get that. I believe that given back power, states would absolutely flourish and thrive. Well actually, I think we've gotten really far off track with the framework of the Constitution, and that's why things are difficult. It feels like a square peg/triangle hole situation. I don't mind regulations, but I want the people and their elected representatives to be in charge, as is their right. I just wish people would stop pretending like throwing more regulations into the mix will solve everything. I also wish people would admit that regulations have side-effects as well, that disproportionately affect those in need. I feel inclined to cite something about the failed Drug War, and how local communities have been standing up the the Feds with their own opposing but better policy, but I'll leave this instead. Something we can handle at the local level, but good luck getting the Feds to help. Be sure and follow the Facebook post at the bottom of the article. https://www.activistpost.com/2018/02/cops-raid-licensed-chefs-home-steal-cooking-equipment-feeding-homeless.html https://www.activistpost.com/2018/02/cops-raid-licensed-chef...