8 ms·

TSA To Ban Printer Cartridges Next Week : SD 1554-10-05

16 points by all 16y ago

bl4k 16y ago
I was impressed by the concealment method used in the bomb, since the explosive has a similar consistancy to ink/toner - but this is just ridiculous. Responding to each terrorist threat, post-threat, by banning any method they used in their attack is a bad way to secure the western world. The terrorists will just adapt and find other methods, as they have proven time and time again. In the interim, millions of travelers take their shoes off at airports, can no longer carry liquids on planes and have perfumes and aftershaves confiscated. With all the different ways our lives have been adjusted because of each attack attempt I have to ask myself if we are not letting them win.
jonknee 16y ago
This could have been an article in The Onion. If we keep up this strategy, it will be impossible to travel with anything.
- Qz 16y ago
  I can see it now: TSA To Ban Airplanes Next Week : SD OMG-WTF-BBQ
splat 16y ago
This is emphasized in the article, but it bears repeating: "Organized terrorists are long term planners and they do not play the same cards more than once."
ryanwaggoner 16y ago
If one was a clever terrorist, you might eventually come to the conclusion that you could do more economic and psychological harm by examining the things people want and need to be able to fly with and then running terror plots that use those items. Things like shoes, underwear, liquids, and electronics come to mind. But of course, we'd never be so stupid as to play into the terrorists hands this way. I'm sure they don't laugh at us running around like idiots throwing away toiletries, getting strip-searched, and shuffling through security barefoot while someone ogles our naked bodies in another room. We sure showed them!
- aw3c2 16y ago
  The terrorism I feel is "freedom" (that word is often abused badly) being taken away. This is not what "the terrorists" do, but what our governments to.
- rick_2047 16y ago
  Things like shoes, underwear, liquids, and electronics come to mind. Umm.. just as a thinking exercise what can one do with this? My take, make a bomb which is deployed in the shoe and is triggered by your urine with some electronics in your underwear. You can have some liquids which will help you piss (normal drinks do help but make it specialized).
  - rdtsc 16y ago
    Just a word of warning, be careful about making such comments. I know someone who was visited by FBI at their workplace, and at home, because of what they said on a message board. They speculated about how a terrorist attack _could_ happen. Then there is the recent case of Yasir Afifi. FBI were tracking him because his friend made a post that caught their attention. Unfortunately our law enforcement and other government agencies don't interpret "freedom of speech" like most regular citizens do. And it certainly doesn't guarantee protections against harassment and embarrassing bullying that accompanies such "investigations"
    - rick_2047 16y ago
      Umm... First of all, I know about how your government violates civil rights. But I am Indian so I don't think FBI will track me. And seriously, even FBI can't think that this could happen.
      - rdtsc 16y ago
        Sorry rick_2047, I assumed you were an American citizen. Most our contributors are American citizens but I forget how many international HNers there are.
- 16y ago
dododo 16y ago
why are they overfitting the data? wouldn't it be better to have expected volumes and masses for various items, and where items defer from these expectations, they get inspected fully? many customs sheets include a declaration of the package contents.
- cosmicray 16y ago
  Volume isn't really the issue, but mass might be. In the case of the toner cartridge (which appears to have been a sub-assembly of an actual printer) a truly devious individual might have removed the correct amount of toner, and then offset it with an equal amount of explosive material. The mass doesn't change (mostly due to the fact that the toner cartridge had excess space in it to begin with). What does change is the chemical signature of the contents. That would require inspection of each item as it is presented for shipment. Hence the problem.
petrilli 16y ago
I believe a summary is best stated as "See, we're doing something!" Doing something, and doing the right thing, are very different things, but one is simple, and the other requires thought and risk management. You can imagine which is rewarded and which is punished. Not just by politicians and bureaucrats, but by the public as well. The general public is also responsible for this absurdity by not being willing to accept some risk as being unavoidable.
- anon_for_this_1 16y ago
  You just described the reason my father-in-law (and now I) believe that the best outcome is no movement. Thus we both vote (in the US) to try and create a stalemate in house vs Senate - both parties are so screwed up they damage everything they touch.
- raganwald 16y ago
  "The Politician's Fallacy: We must do something. This is something. Therfore, we must do it. But doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing at all." --Sir Humphrey Appleby, "Yes, Prime Minister."
ajju 16y ago
Next up suitcases, clothes and hair. Forcibly shaven-bald travelers trudging naked through security carrying their belongings in see through polythene bags will be a common sight. Invest in barbershop stocks.
rwmj 16y ago
If it makes printer cartridge vendors display the tiny quantity of ink / toner that you're buying for $100, then maybe not such a bad thing after all ...
yuvadm 16y ago
TSA - protecting you from yesterday, tomorrow.
awt 16y ago
The airline situation seems more and more analogous to the email spam problem. Right now the government is still in the blacklist phase. Hopefully soon they'll come up with something more like a bayesean approach -- training people to recognize terrorists and bombs on a case by case basis instead of blocking broad categories.
iwr 16y ago
I for one am waiting for the breast implant bomber.
AngryParsley 16y ago
...however prohibiting printer cartridges poses a few challenges … mainly that generally printer cartridges do not have their ink or toner volume readily listed on the cartridge its self. Not a problem. I'm sure people can buy/make stickers that say "15 ounces" and stick them on the cartridges.
lani 16y ago
was it scott adams who said this last time - "we're one more step closer to flying nude"

16 points by all 16y ago

bl4k 16y ago

I was impressed by the concealment method used in the bomb, since the explosive has a similar consistancy to ink/toner - but this is just ridiculous. Responding to each terrorist threat, post-threat, by banning any method they used in their attack is a bad way to secure the western world. The terrorists will just adapt and find other methods, as they have proven time and time again. In the interim, millions of travelers take their shoes off at airports, can no longer carry liquids on planes and have perfumes and aftershaves confiscated. With all the different ways our lives have been adjusted because of each attack attempt I have to ask myself if we are not letting them win.

jonknee 16y ago

This could have been an article in The Onion. If we keep up this strategy, it will be impossible to travel with anything.

Qz 16y ago
I can see it now: TSA To Ban Airplanes Next Week : SD OMG-WTF-BBQ

splat 16y ago

This is emphasized in the article, but it bears repeating: "Organized terrorists are long term planners and they do not play the same cards more than once."

ryanwaggoner 16y ago

If one was a clever terrorist, you might eventually come to the conclusion that you could do more economic and psychological harm by examining the things people want and need to be able to fly with and then running terror plots that use those items. Things like shoes, underwear, liquids, and electronics come to mind. But of course, we'd never be so stupid as to play into the terrorists hands this way. I'm sure they don't laugh at us running around like idiots throwing away toiletries, getting strip-searched, and shuffling through security barefoot while someone ogles our naked bodies in another room. We sure showed them!

aw3c2 16y ago
The terrorism I feel is "freedom" (that word is often abused badly) being taken away. This is not what "the terrorists" do, but what our governments to.
rick_2047 16y ago
Things like shoes, underwear, liquids, and electronics come to mind. Umm.. just as a thinking exercise what can one do with this? My take, make a bomb which is deployed in the shoe and is triggered by your urine with some electronics in your underwear. You can have some liquids which will help you piss (normal drinks do help but make it specialized).
- rdtsc 16y ago
  Just a word of warning, be careful about making such comments. I know someone who was visited by FBI at their workplace, and at home, because of what they said on a message board. They speculated about how a terrorist attack _could_ happen. Then there is the recent case of Yasir Afifi. FBI were tracking him because his friend made a post that caught their attention. Unfortunately our law enforcement and other government agencies don't interpret "freedom of speech" like most regular citizens do. And it certainly doesn't guarantee protections against harassment and embarrassing bullying that accompanies such "investigations"
  - rick_2047 16y ago
    Umm... First of all, I know about how your government violates civil rights. But I am Indian so I don't think FBI will track me. And seriously, even FBI can't think that this could happen.
    - rdtsc 16y ago
      Sorry rick_2047, I assumed you were an American citizen. Most our contributors are American citizens but I forget how many international HNers there are.
16y ago

dododo 16y ago

why are they overfitting the data? wouldn't it be better to have expected volumes and masses for various items, and where items defer from these expectations, they get inspected fully? many customs sheets include a declaration of the package contents.

cosmicray 16y ago
Volume isn't really the issue, but mass might be. In the case of the toner cartridge (which appears to have been a sub-assembly of an actual printer) a truly devious individual might have removed the correct amount of toner, and then offset it with an equal amount of explosive material. The mass doesn't change (mostly due to the fact that the toner cartridge had excess space in it to begin with). What does change is the chemical signature of the contents. That would require inspection of each item as it is presented for shipment. Hence the problem.

petrilli 16y ago

I believe a summary is best stated as "See, we're doing something!" Doing something, and doing the right thing, are very different things, but one is simple, and the other requires thought and risk management. You can imagine which is rewarded and which is punished. Not just by politicians and bureaucrats, but by the public as well. The general public is also responsible for this absurdity by not being willing to accept some risk as being unavoidable.

anon_for_this_1 16y ago
You just described the reason my father-in-law (and now I) believe that the best outcome is no movement. Thus we both vote (in the US) to try and create a stalemate in house vs Senate - both parties are so screwed up they damage everything they touch.
raganwald 16y ago
"The Politician's Fallacy: We must do something. This is something. Therfore, we must do it. But doing the wrong thing is worse than doing nothing at all." --Sir Humphrey Appleby, "Yes, Prime Minister."

ajju 16y ago

Next up suitcases, clothes and hair. Forcibly shaven-bald travelers trudging naked through security carrying their belongings in see through polythene bags will be a common sight. Invest in barbershop stocks.

rwmj 16y ago

If it makes printer cartridge vendors display the tiny quantity of ink / toner that you're buying for $100, then maybe not such a bad thing after all ...

yuvadm 16y ago

TSA - protecting you from yesterday, tomorrow.

awt 16y ago

The airline situation seems more and more analogous to the email spam problem. Right now the government is still in the blacklist phase. Hopefully soon they'll come up with something more like a bayesean approach -- training people to recognize terrorists and bombs on a case by case basis instead of blocking broad categories.

iwr 16y ago

I for one am waiting for the breast implant bomber.

AngryParsley 16y ago

...however prohibiting printer cartridges poses a few challenges … mainly that generally printer cartridges do not have their ink or toner volume readily listed on the cartridge its self. Not a problem. I'm sure people can buy/make stickers that say "15 ounces" and stick them on the cartridges.

lani 16y ago

was it scott adams who said this last time - "we're one more step closer to flying nude"