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> I find many of my smart, technology friends don't really have a solid grasp of finances and economics. This describes me, unfortunately. I consider myself fa

> I find many of my smart, technology friends don't really have a solid grasp of finances and economics. This describes me, unfortunately. I consider myself fairly smart, did well in college, tons of technical skills, but I am -terrible- with money. I keep a 12-month spreadsheet showing income and expenses for every pay period and one showing current debt, but beyond that I know I’m awful about it. A lot of it comes from my parents also being terrible with money and never teaching me saving vs. spending, investing, etc,. I’ve figured out some of it on my own but I still struggle. I’m glad to hear you’re trying to teach your children better.

travisoneill1 8y ago
> I keep a 12-month spreadsheet showing income and expenses for every pay period and one showing current debt This means that you are not terrible with money. 90% of practical personal finance can be expressed as follows: expenses < income. The rest is implementation details.
- finaliteration 8y ago
  That's fair. When I say I'm terrible with money I mean more in the realm of saving vs. spending. I have a small amount in savings for emergencies/cash flow safety but I definitely do not have 6 months worth of expenses set aside or hundreds of thousands of dollars in my 401(k) as some of my peers seem to. Also, if I'm being totally honest my retirement plan is basically to never retire, partly for financial reasons but also because I like working in my current industry and staying busy and don't see that changing. Part of that comes from being in a high cost-of-living area with a child and student loan debt, but I also know that a part of it is due to the fact that I buy things I don't need way too often.
  - MaulingMonkey 8y ago
    Savers are often finding ways to make inertia work for them. Every penny in my 401k was directed there by my employer. I never saw it in the paycheck, I don't think of it as something I have available to spend. Others might use a bank account they don't have a debit card attached to. Or for debts, might set up an automatic transfer to eventually pay it off, and bury their credit cards in a filing cabinet somewhere. Some people find luck with budgets. Don't tyrannize yourself - it's OK to carve out some of your budget for buying things you don't need - but you can balance that with letting yourself save some. And budgets don't have to be 100% set in stone - when my friend wanted some replacement computer parts, he cut back on his food budget (by cooking more instead of eating out) for a bit to "afford" it. I realize this is easier said than done, though! Even if you never plan to retire, having a rainy day fund / a long runway will help take the stress out of layoffs, and give you more time to find the job you want vs the job you need to pay the bills, etc. - hopefully helping ensure you keep enjoying working in your current industry :)
- sl1ck731 8y ago
  Is there any benefit to doing this in a sheet rather than something like Mint? I just check it occasionally to make sure my net worth increases month-over-month. Any financial decision like buying a car I take the net income average over time as potential spending bound.
  - finaliteration 8y ago
    For those who still live somewhat paycheck-to-paycheck (or who manage their money that way as I do), Mint can be a bit challenging to use because it only allows budgeting at a monthly resolution and things like pending charges, etc., can be tricky to manage. For me it's easier to see "I have A amount coming on B date with C expenses due and D left over for saving or spending" than it is to try and budget monthly and deal with all of the expense carry-over, etc., that Mint tends to do. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but it's a system that, so far, has worked for me for a little over a decade.
    - sl1ck731 8y ago
      I didn't consider resolution under a month. I can see that angle. I know some of the graphics are not detailed enough so I will occasionally dump the CSV data from it and make a graph in excel.
    - eggy 8y ago
      Funny, but I still use a 6-month cash-flow spreadsheet broken down bi-weekly. I teach my children about other tools, and what they should learn about to do it better, but if you dutifully keep a 6-month to 1-year cash flow spreadsheet, you are leagues ahead of the average person. It was the first tool (started in my thirties, and in my mid-fifties now) that made me avoid waking up to a negative balance, because I couldn't foresee expenses coming in right before my paycheck. I admit I haven't done much beyond this, however, compared to my parents, I am doing much, much better. I can only hope my children can write the same twenty years from now!

travisoneill1 8y ago

> I keep a 12-month spreadsheet showing income and expenses for every pay period and one showing current debt This means that you are not terrible with money. 90% of practical personal finance can be expressed as follows: expenses < income. The rest is implementation details.

finaliteration 8y ago
That's fair. When I say I'm terrible with money I mean more in the realm of saving vs. spending. I have a small amount in savings for emergencies/cash flow safety but I definitely do not have 6 months worth of expenses set aside or hundreds of thousands of dollars in my 401(k) as some of my peers seem to. Also, if I'm being totally honest my retirement plan is basically to never retire, partly for financial reasons but also because I like working in my current industry and staying busy and don't see that changing. Part of that comes from being in a high cost-of-living area with a child and student loan debt, but I also know that a part of it is due to the fact that I buy things I don't need way too often.
- MaulingMonkey 8y ago
  Savers are often finding ways to make inertia work for them. Every penny in my 401k was directed there by my employer. I never saw it in the paycheck, I don't think of it as something I have available to spend. Others might use a bank account they don't have a debit card attached to. Or for debts, might set up an automatic transfer to eventually pay it off, and bury their credit cards in a filing cabinet somewhere. Some people find luck with budgets. Don't tyrannize yourself - it's OK to carve out some of your budget for buying things you don't need - but you can balance that with letting yourself save some. And budgets don't have to be 100% set in stone - when my friend wanted some replacement computer parts, he cut back on his food budget (by cooking more instead of eating out) for a bit to "afford" it. I realize this is easier said than done, though! Even if you never plan to retire, having a rainy day fund / a long runway will help take the stress out of layoffs, and give you more time to find the job you want vs the job you need to pay the bills, etc. - hopefully helping ensure you keep enjoying working in your current industry :)
sl1ck731 8y ago
Is there any benefit to doing this in a sheet rather than something like Mint? I just check it occasionally to make sure my net worth increases month-over-month. Any financial decision like buying a car I take the net income average over time as potential spending bound.
- finaliteration 8y ago
  For those who still live somewhat paycheck-to-paycheck (or who manage their money that way as I do), Mint can be a bit challenging to use because it only allows budgeting at a monthly resolution and things like pending charges, etc., can be tricky to manage. For me it's easier to see "I have A amount coming on B date with C expenses due and D left over for saving or spending" than it is to try and budget monthly and deal with all of the expense carry-over, etc., that Mint tends to do. Maybe I'm doing it wrong but it's a system that, so far, has worked for me for a little over a decade.
  - sl1ck731 8y ago
    I didn't consider resolution under a month. I can see that angle. I know some of the graphics are not detailed enough so I will occasionally dump the CSV data from it and make a graph in excel.
  - eggy 8y ago
    Funny, but I still use a 6-month cash-flow spreadsheet broken down bi-weekly. I teach my children about other tools, and what they should learn about to do it better, but if you dutifully keep a 6-month to 1-year cash flow spreadsheet, you are leagues ahead of the average person. It was the first tool (started in my thirties, and in my mid-fifties now) that made me avoid waking up to a negative balance, because I couldn't foresee expenses coming in right before my paycheck. I admit I haven't done much beyond this, however, compared to my parents, I am doing much, much better. I can only hope my children can write the same twenty years from now!