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> I think it makes accountability more valuable. If citizens had a beef, and protesting was as easy as finding the handful of people who are in charge, then peo

> I think it makes accountability more valuable. If citizens had a beef, and protesting was as easy as finding the handful of people who are in charge, then people would be more inclined. Except that if that small group of people has less actual power, protesting to them can only produce less of an effect. And that they have less power means they will be less likely to cause the problems, but.. > However when the government is so big and becomes secretive, then accountability becomes more than a chore, and eventually futile. I don't see how corporations are exempt from this pattern either. > You make it seem like when government is small, that there isn't Justice. That's entirely mistaken. The court system will still work without authoritative government control in every aspect of our lives. How and where do you effectively bring forth grievances when the trouble is that your employer is only paying you enough to go to work the next day? > Take for example the secret FISA court. The FISA court is a bad example here because it doesn't reflect the context of what I think we're discussing, namely regulations, and more specifically corporate regulations. The FISA court doesn't regulate anything. > You make it seem like when government is small, that there isn't Justice. My main point is simply that when regulations are minimal, citizens have virtually no recourse against the power-consolidated megacorporations that run their lives. > Corporations come and go like docker containers, ... Many do, but the ones that exert the most control over people are the really big corporations, some having been around a century or more. These are the corporations for which we need regulation; the companies that go out of business in a year don't have an effect on nearly as many people. > and we have a choice to do business with them. Not exactly true. You could possibly avoid using private banks for payment processing (credit/debit cards), but you'd have to pay cash for everything or write checks. Not all businesses take those, and most online stores take neither. Cable companies have created de-facto monopolies in many places in the US based on your location. People "can move" to another location, but you will most likely end up in the same situation. > We literally have no choice with our government. Well, not exactly. We vote in representatives, we can change our laws and amend the constitution. Also, in the same way that we can "choose" to avoid some companies, you can move to a different one.

dgzl 8y ago
I appreciate you writing this and I want to give you a worthy response. > Except that if that small group of people has less actual power, protesting to them can only produce less of an effect. And that they have less power means they will be less likely to cause the problems, but.. > I don't see how corporations are exempt from this pattern either. They're not, any way you look at it. You can't regulate evil away unfortunately. It doesn't matter that regulations you throw at a lucrative company, they will invest incredible amounts of money to try and weasel around it. > How and where do you effectively bring forth grievances when the trouble is that your employer is only paying you enough to go to work the next day? Where would you do that under today's highly regulated government? People are struggling in this very way today also. What right does a person have to more money from their employer than what the consenting adults have agreed upon? Assuming you're talking about raising the minimum wage, I want you to consider something. The next time the idea comes up, try thinking about minimum wage from the standpoint of a small business owner. There's a lot more of them (and they're more important to the average local economy) than MegaCorps. > The FISA court is a bad example here because it doesn't reflect the context of what I think we're discussing, namely regulations I'm not only talking about regulations. When I say 'big' government, I'm including the idea of them becoming 'bigger' than our natural born rights and the Constitution. > My main point is simply that when regulations are minimal, citizens have virtually no recourse against the power-consolidated megacorporations that run their lives. I'm less interested in no-regulations than I am giving States their rights to regulate back (along with the tax dollars). It's much easier for citizens to control and customize their own State laws to work for them (i.e. better local Democracy). When the Feds take over and centralize power, the result is usually expensive crap. I'm actually a firm believer in the 10th Amendment of the Bill of Rights, which is supposed to a) -strictly- limit the power of the federal government, and pass liberty to the people or regulation by state government. This is important because protesting your state government is infinitely easier and more effective than protesting the seemingly monolith that is our federal government. As an interesting note, I get the feeling many people see our government power as a pyramid, where the Feds are at the top, the State is in the middle, and the citizens are at the bottom. However A10 literally sets a different framework: the Feds have extremely limited power (imagine chains), the States can regulate their own laws, and anything not forbidden is freedom for the people. [0][1] > consolidated megacorporations that run their lives. I manage to run my own life every day without any help from MegaCorp. You should try it. > Cable companies have created de-facto monopolies in many places in the US based on your location. I agree, they should be broken up. > Well, not exactly. We vote in representatives, we can change our laws and amend the constitution. And the point I'm trying to make is that if you shift power from Feds to State, the citizens can easier control their laws, as granted in A10, and create something that works much better for them, on their terms, with more or less regulation depending where you are. [0]: "The powers not delegated to the United States [Feds] by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_...

dgzl 8y ago

I appreciate you writing this and I want to give you a worthy response. > Except that if that small group of people has less actual power, protesting to them can only produce less of an effect. And that they have less power means they will be less likely to cause the problems, but.. > I don't see how corporations are exempt from this pattern either. They're not, any way you look at it. You can't regulate evil away unfortunately. It doesn't matter that regulations you throw at a lucrative company, they will invest incredible amounts of money to try and weasel around it. > How and where do you effectively bring forth grievances when the trouble is that your employer is only paying you enough to go to work the next day? Where would you do that under today's highly regulated government? People are struggling in this very way today also. What right does a person have to more money from their employer than what the consenting adults have agreed upon? Assuming you're talking about raising the minimum wage, I want you to consider something. The next time the idea comes up, try thinking about minimum wage from the standpoint of a small business owner. There's a lot more of them (and they're more important to the average local economy) than MegaCorps. > The FISA court is a bad example here because it doesn't reflect the context of what I think we're discussing, namely regulations I'm not only talking about regulations. When I say 'big' government, I'm including the idea of them becoming 'bigger' than our natural born rights and the Constitution. > My main point is simply that when regulations are minimal, citizens have virtually no recourse against the power-consolidated megacorporations that run their lives. I'm less interested in no-regulations than I am giving States their rights to regulate back (along with the tax dollars). It's much easier for citizens to control and customize their own State laws to work for them (i.e. better local Democracy). When the Feds take over and centralize power, the result is usually expensive crap. I'm actually a firm believer in the 10th Amendment of the Bill of Rights, which is supposed to a) -strictly- limit the power of the federal government, and pass liberty to the people or regulation by state government. This is important because protesting your state government is infinitely easier and more effective than protesting the seemingly monolith that is our federal government. As an interesting note, I get the feeling many people see our government power as a pyramid, where the Feds are at the top, the State is in the middle, and the citizens are at the bottom. However A10 literally sets a different framework: the Feds have extremely limited power (imagine chains), the States can regulate their own laws, and anything not forbidden is freedom for the people. [0][1] > consolidated megacorporations that run their lives. I manage to run my own life every day without any help from MegaCorp. You should try it. > Cable companies have created de-facto monopolies in many places in the US based on your location. I agree, they should be broken up. > Well, not exactly. We vote in representatives, we can change our laws and amend the constitution. And the point I'm trying to make is that if you shift power from Feds to State, the citizens can easier control their laws, as granted in A10, and create something that works much better for them, on their terms, with more or less regulation depending where you are. [0]: "The powers not delegated to the United States [Feds] by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_...