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I argue that by your own ideal state of decentralization, the current system should be working perfectly fine for you regardless of private companies censoring
by helen___keller 8y ago
I argue that by your own ideal state of decentralization, the current system should be working perfectly fine for you regardless of private companies censoring X, Y, and Z.
The "fully decentralized" internet can (does?) already currently exist today alongside our usual youtube/facebook/cloudflare/etc centralized internet. The state of centralization is entirely by user choice, not by force.
Literally the only necessary component for a decentralized internet is net neutrality - that packets are delivered without systematic blocking or throttling on the basis of content. And net neutrality, while in danger, hasn't AFAIK devolved to blocking sites for objectionable content (not yet in the west anyways)
In other words, theres a very clear answer to your conundrum of "at what point do we accept that we have different viewpoints and live and let live?". Regardless of political views or whatever else, your content ought to be routable on the internet. Everything else that we as a society have built on top of that (edge caching, content platforms, delivery systems, heck throw in DNS while we're at it) are unnecessary for a decentralized internet, so if you piss off society and nobody wants to do business with you, maybe it's fine if you're on your own.
Of course, you also argue "there are problems that people have, and things that need to be talked about, but they aren't allowed to say anything about it". That's an understandable position, but should be considered unrelated to the issue of centralized vs decentralized -- I would still not want to argue with some race-baiting troll, even if I hosted my own content instead of uploading it to youtube. I would still ban them, ignore them, blacklist them, or whatever options exist in the decentralized internet.
>The societal norms are shifting to a place where there are certain topics that are not allowed to be discussed at all even if looking at them from a critical lens
This isn't really any different from the majority of human history. Private speech - available through a text message or a DM - is still pretty unregulated (and likely will remain that way - for example iMessage is end-to-end encrypted and I suspect any chat service that moderates private messages would run into issues maintaining users). Public speech has always been heavily regulated by those who hold power - whether it's the FCC regulating TV content or being snubbed from the community when you advocate a particularly unsavory opinion at a town gathering.
So then maybe the problem is that more and more of our speech is "public speech" (like a facebook post) and not "private speech" (like a facebook direct message), and hence in practice more and more speech is being censored. I could agree with this. But that's neither a centralization problem nor a censorship problem.
- orthecreedence 8y agoThanks, that's a great deconstruction of my argument. It seems one of the problems I have is cultural (censorship being increasingly thought of as acceptable) and the other a proposed solution to the problem as it exists solely on the internet. And you're right, the internet is already decentralized...it's just the things built on top of it that are mostly centralized. I guess my viewpoint is that decentralized services (accessible enough that they don't require someone to run a server in their basement) can somewhat curtail the problem of cultural censorship. In other words, I think the average person should be able to publish what they want (no matter how stupid) without specialized knowledge and without being censored. That is what I envision. Will this help the problem with cultural censorship? I really don't know. I just believe in the free exchange of ideas. That said, and as others have brought up in the discussion, the banking system (Visa et al) engage in censorship fairly often as well...so the problem is certainly not limited to internet. I guess my post is more of a general observation and complaint than a coherent idea of what should be done. But it's good to at least separate out the parts that aren't really related and argue them as separate pieces =].
- helen___keller 8y ago> I think the average person should be able to publish what they want (no matter how stupid) without specialized knowledge and without being censored. I agree, it's an unfortunate consequence of monetary incentive. There's tons of FOSS self-hosted alternatives for any typical centralized service, all of which could be bundled and idiotproofed and sold to average people. But no one is out there innovating and marketing it and pushing it to the mainstream (if the demand is even there - not likely) Theres a few attempts, like https://nextcloud.com/devices/ https://nextcloud.com/devices/ , but I would have never heard of them if I didn't have a specific interest in finding open source alternatives to cloud services.