4 ms·

There is a reason that it became common practice for an introduction to give a broad overview of the topic. It seriously detracts from the writing when the firs

There is a reason that it became common practice for an introduction to give a broad overview of the topic. It seriously detracts from the writing when the first paragraph plunges you into deep background, and you don't get a hint as to the supposed topic until halfway through.

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baxtr 8y ago
+1 I find myself regularly scrolling heavily until I find the “meat” of the article teasered in the title. I guess someone told them before “you need to tell a story” or they do it for SEO reasons.
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SonicSoul 8y ago
seems that most posts dedicate first 1-n paragraphs for unnecessary background and/or rehashing of the title. it's as if writers feel the need to ease into the topic as if it was a bucket of ice water for the reader to avoid being startled by
- Swizec 8y ago
  It’s actually just a mark of bad writing. Lots of books do it too, but it’s less common coz you get a lot of practice before you attempt a book. First rule of good writing: Start the story as late as you can get away with. Preferably right before the punchline. Compare: 1) I woke up that morning, showered, put on my shoes, and went on a hike. It was a beautiful day the sun was shining the bees were buzzing. I walked for 30 minutes when I happened upon a bear in the road. 2) Shit, is that a bear!? I was on a hike in the Rocky mountains in the middle of nowhere and there’s this bear rught in front of me. Now what do i do? Ok I’m not doing these examples justice but think of your favorite stories: Do they start with the action or with the long wind up? In modern storytelling the windup usually comes during/after the action as backstory. A counter example are horror movies and thrillers where you want to build suspense first.
  - gumby 8y ago
    But there's a difference between a story for the purpose of entertainment vs an expository story. The former are quite rare on HN.
    - Swizec 8y ago
      Same rules apply. Writing is better when you start with the conclusion then expand on the supporting argument. Unless you want to bring the reader along for the ride of discovery.
      - kbutler 8y ago
        > bring the reader along for the ride That's the point of long form story telling in the Atlantic. Sometimes it is well done, this isn't a good example of it (the ride isn't worth it).
phalangion 8y ago
I wonder if writing like this, where you don't really get to what the article is about until you're well into it, are because of advertising. I imagine people are more likely to spend more time on the page if they can't it all out of the intro.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  I believe so. I think that's why the "inverted pyramid" is so highly regarded, and yet so rarely used in practice. It's because if you go with it, you quickly shed readers who found all the info they wanted partway, and go out to do other things. Which is great if you care about delivering value to readers - and that is not what most ad-driven publications really care about.
CPLX 8y ago
This has been how storytelling has been done for centuries, it’s a a mark of thoughtful feature writing. The Atlantic is over 100 years old and extremely prestigious, it’s resonable to assume that at least from a technical writing standpoint they know what they are doing and do it on purpose. It’s not writing intended for a textbook or academic paper. It’s a story. You’re supposed to read it and get introduced to things and discover the themes of the story gradually. I see a variation of this criticism of a long form feature about every week or so on HN. It’s sort of equivalent to a person walking into a modern art museum and asking why the artists didn’t just paint the pictures so they look exactly like the thing the artist was looking at when he painted the picture.
- iscrewyou 8y ago
  In the age of tweets, memes, and captions, it has simply become such criticism to even surface to the top. I usually ignore critiques of long form story telling.
- torstenvl 8y ago
  I believe you're thinking of an attention step, an immersion into a human interest aspect of the story before the formulaic structure of a traditional introduction. I have no problem with an attention step. I'm using one right now in a paper I hope to have published. What I object to is an article ostensibly on Topic A that spends the first 60% completely ignoring Topic A in favor of Topic B, only to draw the most fleeting and hand-wavy of analogies between the two, and subsequently pretending as if the author had presented some work of scholarship on Topic A. "Until halfway through" was not an exaggeration in my original comment.
  - hexane360 8y ago
    >spends the first 60% completely ignoring [biology] Only if you ignore the literal second paragraph: >Even neurons are formed by habit. When continuously exposed to a fixed stimulus, neurons become steadily less sensitive to that stimulus—until they eventually stop responding to it altogether.
cbhl 8y ago
This article is literally an advertisement for a book. From the fine article: "This piece was adapted from James Geary’s new book, Wit’s End: What Wit Is, How It Works, and Why We Need It." Seen under that light, the article works perfectly. It contains a headline with seemingly simple question, meanders along with some anecdotes, and then at the end -- if you're still reading -- it tells you that you can go buy the book if you want to know the answer.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

baxtr 8y ago

+1 I find myself regularly scrolling heavily until I find the “meat” of the article teasered in the title. I guess someone told them before “you need to tell a story” or they do it for SEO reasons.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

SonicSoul 8y ago

seems that most posts dedicate first 1-n paragraphs for unnecessary background and/or rehashing of the title. it's as if writers feel the need to ease into the topic as if it was a bucket of ice water for the reader to avoid being startled by

Swizec 8y ago
It’s actually just a mark of bad writing. Lots of books do it too, but it’s less common coz you get a lot of practice before you attempt a book. First rule of good writing: Start the story as late as you can get away with. Preferably right before the punchline. Compare: 1) I woke up that morning, showered, put on my shoes, and went on a hike. It was a beautiful day the sun was shining the bees were buzzing. I walked for 30 minutes when I happened upon a bear in the road. 2) Shit, is that a bear!? I was on a hike in the Rocky mountains in the middle of nowhere and there’s this bear rught in front of me. Now what do i do? Ok I’m not doing these examples justice but think of your favorite stories: Do they start with the action or with the long wind up? In modern storytelling the windup usually comes during/after the action as backstory. A counter example are horror movies and thrillers where you want to build suspense first.
- gumby 8y ago
  But there's a difference between a story for the purpose of entertainment vs an expository story. The former are quite rare on HN.
  - Swizec 8y ago
    Same rules apply. Writing is better when you start with the conclusion then expand on the supporting argument. Unless you want to bring the reader along for the ride of discovery.
    - kbutler 8y ago
      > bring the reader along for the ride That's the point of long form story telling in the Atlantic. Sometimes it is well done, this isn't a good example of it (the ride isn't worth it).

phalangion 8y ago

I wonder if writing like this, where you don't really get to what the article is about until you're well into it, are because of advertising. I imagine people are more likely to spend more time on the page if they can't it all out of the intro.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
I believe so. I think that's why the "inverted pyramid" is so highly regarded, and yet so rarely used in practice. It's because if you go with it, you quickly shed readers who found all the info they wanted partway, and go out to do other things. Which is great if you care about delivering value to readers - and that is not what most ad-driven publications really care about.

CPLX 8y ago

This has been how storytelling has been done for centuries, it’s a a mark of thoughtful feature writing. The Atlantic is over 100 years old and extremely prestigious, it’s resonable to assume that at least from a technical writing standpoint they know what they are doing and do it on purpose. It’s not writing intended for a textbook or academic paper. It’s a story. You’re supposed to read it and get introduced to things and discover the themes of the story gradually. I see a variation of this criticism of a long form feature about every week or so on HN. It’s sort of equivalent to a person walking into a modern art museum and asking why the artists didn’t just paint the pictures so they look exactly like the thing the artist was looking at when he painted the picture.

iscrewyou 8y ago
In the age of tweets, memes, and captions, it has simply become such criticism to even surface to the top. I usually ignore critiques of long form story telling.
torstenvl 8y ago
I believe you're thinking of an attention step, an immersion into a human interest aspect of the story before the formulaic structure of a traditional introduction. I have no problem with an attention step. I'm using one right now in a paper I hope to have published. What I object to is an article ostensibly on Topic A that spends the first 60% completely ignoring Topic A in favor of Topic B, only to draw the most fleeting and hand-wavy of analogies between the two, and subsequently pretending as if the author had presented some work of scholarship on Topic A. "Until halfway through" was not an exaggeration in my original comment.
- hexane360 8y ago
  >spends the first 60% completely ignoring [biology] Only if you ignore the literal second paragraph: >Even neurons are formed by habit. When continuously exposed to a fixed stimulus, neurons become steadily less sensitive to that stimulus—until they eventually stop responding to it altogether.

cbhl 8y ago

This article is literally an advertisement for a book. From the fine article: "This piece was adapted from James Geary’s new book, Wit’s End: What Wit Is, How It Works, and Why We Need It." Seen under that light, the article works perfectly. It contains a headline with seemingly simple question, meanders along with some anecdotes, and then at the end -- if you're still reading -- it tells you that you can go buy the book if you want to know the answer.