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Many women published research under pseudonyms in the past, for example Sophie Germain: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Germain https://en.wikipedia.org/w
by ThePhysicist 8y ago
Many women published research under pseudonyms in the past, for example Sophie Germain:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Germain https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sophie_Germain
So I'd argue that many past inventions that are credited to men might actually have been achieved by women scientists publishing under their husbands / colleagues / friends name as a pseudonym.
In Paris I once saw an original print of Marie Curie's book on radioactivity, where her name is given as "Mme Pierre Curie". This probably shows how difficult it was even then to get something published under your own name as a woman (Cover and autor info here: https://www.amazon.fr/Radioactivit%C3%A9-1-Madame-Pierre-Curie/dp/B001SUW80G https://www.amazon.fr/Radioactivit%C3%A9-1-Madame-Pierre-Cur...).
- kristopolous 8y agoThe 1911 Solvay Conference photo illustrates just how exceptional a woman scientist was then: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvay_Conference https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solvay_Conference she's there at the table with Henri Poincaré.
- jacquesm 8y agoThe amount of brainpower in that room is incredible. Now think about it this way: probably half of what was available at the time got lost somehow. Makes you wonder where we'd be technologically if we had not systematically repressed one half of the possible scientists. On the positive side: probably a lot of that research got done anyway, with some guy taking credit for it.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- kristopolous 8y agoIt's way more than half. All those people are still white.
- bonzini 8y agoWell, they are all Europeans. I am not denying that racism existed at the time, but hardly any non-white person lived in Europe back then. (Even nowadays in most European countries the percentage of non-white people is so low that, in a group of 30, finding none is well within statistical error).
- BerislavLopac 8y agoInterestingly, many (if not most) of people on that conference were Jews, which were often treated as second-class citizens even before Hitler. Also, an additional testament how Marie Curie was exceptional was that she was an immigrant from Poland (which didn't even exist when she was born; her initial studies were in secret), and that she is still the only person ever to win two Nobel prizes for two separate fields (physics and chemistry).
- jacquesm 8y agoIf you want to go down that route - which is definitely your right - you could re-shoot a similar picture today and it probably would not show a major shift in demographics. Sad but true.
- ZoomZoomZoom 8y agoI may be going on a limb here, but I have a sense of the same broken logic here as the ubiquitous argument of lost revenue[1]. To be clear, I don't argue the point of suppression and cultural standards affecting the scientific (or, not specifically, any other) thought, but using such simplistic way to quantify that effect. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_sales https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_sales
- jacquesm 8y agoThat is an absolute nonsense link that you are trying to make there. Lost sales are sales that make assumptions about every sale as though it is lost as a result of piracy, an alternative and often more convenient mode of delivery. Denying half (or even more than half) of your citizens access to education and more prestigious stem jobs means you are tossing away an Einstein or a Bohr once every generation or so. The cumulative costs of that are enormous, and are compounding, compared to that a couple of $ of money that does not end up in the pockets of media moguls is very small potatoes.
- amineazariz 8y agoDidn't knew about her... Fascinating.
- Pamar 8y agohttp://www.pilloledistoria.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/hedy-lamarr-nude.jpg http://www.pilloledistoria.it/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/hed...
- piaste 8y ago> In Paris I once saw an original print of Marie Curie's book on radioactivity, where her name is given as "Mme Pierre Curie". This probably shows how difficult it was even then to get something published under your own name as a woman Nothing to do with publishing difficulties at all. It was simply the way a married French woman would be addressed at the time - as "Madame [husband's full name]", eg Michelle Obama would be "Mme Barack Obama". (It's still in use in more formal / old-fashioned contexts.) The reader would understand that the author of the book was Pierre Curie's wife, rather than him.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Andre607 8y agoYour comment only seems to reinforce the point that > This probably shows how difficult it was even then to get something published under your own name as a woman Or are you suggesting that it was not difficult for a woman to publish under her name, only that it was not customary to do so? Can you point to some supporting examples of this, if so? > (It's still in use in more formal / old-fashioned contexts.) formal / old-fashioned / misogynistic contexts.
- gammateam 8y agoThey said it wasnt an example of it without suggesting anything You dont need to have an opinion or dissertation on the topic of dis/enfranchisement to make this observation
- Andre607 8y agoThey said it wasn't an example of it, but then presented a historical account which only seemingly reinforces the original claim they were claiming it was not.
- leshow 8y ago> only reinforces the original claim It didn't though, the "Mme" part stands for mademoiselle, indicating it is a woman. Therefore they weren't pretending to be a man for the purpose of getting a paper published.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- DoreenMichele 8y agoBoth you and the rebuttal from piaste are correct. "Mme Pierre Curie" was published under her actual name, however lots of women published work under male pseudonyms. Even those who were known by their own names tend to be obscure historical footnotes, not as well remembered as male counterparts. A few related links: https://theculturetrip.com/north-america/usa/articles/12-female-writers-who-wrote-under-male-pseudonyms/ https://theculturetrip.com/north-america/usa/articles/12-fem... https://jezebel.com/homme-de-plume-what-i-learned-sending-my-novel-out-und-1720637627 https://jezebel.com/homme-de-plume-what-i-learned-sending-my... http://introductionsnecessary.com/2016/06/14/wang-zhenyi/ http://introductionsnecessary.com/2016/06/14/wang-zhenyi/ (Yes, I realize my sources are about mostly writers, not scientists.)
- aaron695 8y agoMale writers also write under female names, not sure of the point. It's about $. They all take the credit when it's due. Prince used a symbol at one point > So I'd argue that many past inventions that are credited to men might actually have been achieved by women scientists publishing under their husbands / colleagues / friends name as a pseudony If this is true why is the one example 100% incorrect? Since when did we make stuff up just to fit the world the way we think it is?
- jonny_eh 8y agoJK Rowling published the first Harry Potter book using her initials to hide her gender, which was recommended by her publisher. She could go back on that, but it's too late now that she's known by it.
- btschaegg 8y ago> She could go back on that, but it's too late now that she's known by it. Interesting. I read the first Harry Potter novel (i.e. the german translation) as a kid about 3 or 4 years after it was released. I'm pretty sure I knew the "J" stood for Joanne from the get go. OTOH, I still can't remember what H.G. Wells' first name was, although I must've looked it up a couple of times by now…