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Daily reminder that China jailed Lu Guang (a Chinese citizen) on torture camps for photographing the grim reality of many local places riddled with child cancer

Daily reminder that China jailed Lu Guang (a Chinese citizen) on torture camps for photographing the grim reality of many local places riddled with child cancer and toxic waste due to unsafe industrial practices: https://www.demilked.com/missing-photographer-lu-guang/ https://www.demilked.com/missing-photographer-lu-guang/

dgzl 8y ago
And I'm just over here, advocating for a smaller and less powerful government. Edit: I found a quick way to lose HN points, simply show support for smaller government.
- jeklj 8y ago
  Interesting, do tell us more about your efforts in advocacy.
- azinman2 8y ago
  Smaller gov doesn’t mean a less barbaric / violent one. Nor does it mean smaller gov mean less tyranny or silencing of voice.
  - fromthestart 8y ago
    That's literally what it means. "Small government" is about limiting institutional power, because only through power can a government impose tyranny and/or barbarism. Opression requires power, which people have the capacity to limit in first world democracies, and to a lesser extent in non democratic nations through various forms of resistance. Of course this assumes that less violence, barbarism, and/or government opression represents the will of the populace...
    - azinman2 8y ago
      You’re incorrectly assuming government is the only source of violence or tyranny.
      - dgzl 8y ago
        I don't see anywhere that they're assuming that.
      - fromthestart 8y ago
        From my comment: >Of course this assumes that less violence, barbarism, and/or government opression represents the will of the populace... Not at all. However, what you seem to be assuming is that government size is independent of measures of tyrrany and opression. I contend that the the size of government is directly proportional to tyranny and opression. We should take a moment to define terms here: by size in this context I refer to scope of operations and, by necessity, authority. In which case a larger government is by definition more opressive, in that authoritarianism past some point is itself opression, as it requires involuntary imposition of rules and restriction of freedoms. Small government is a hedge against authoritarianism and the tyranny that naturally follows when your life is increasingly micromanaged.
        tim333 8y ago
        The most common measure of size of government is spending as a percent of GDP. Some examples Finland 56% of GPD Afghanistan 12% I don't buy your contention that size of government is directly proportional to tyranny and opression.
        fromthestart 8y ago
        >The most common measure of size of government Well sure, if you define size of government as such. What about instead number of regulating agencies and their relative budgets? What about legislation and imprisonment? I would argue that, at least by the classical conservative definition, small government is less about GDP and more about restriction of freedoms and invasion of privacy. Not to imply that some degree of both may be necessary for a functioning society.
        dgzl 8y ago
        Using terms like 'big' and 'small' when referring to governments doesn't necessarily have to mean just financially or regulatory. In more serious terms, it can be used to mean tyrannical, such as becoming 'bigger' than our human rights. How's this for a thought: How 'big' do we want our government to become? Personally I would have liked to stop before Bush signed the Patriot Act, or before we bum-rushed the middle-east with no intention of leaving, or before the NSA created their god machine, or before Obama resigned the Patriot Act several times. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of immediately stripping regulations and defending redundant agencies, but I am interested in immediately cutting off the hand that's reaching up Lady-Liberty's skirt.
  - dgzl 8y ago
    A smaller government means easier to keep authorities accountable. The bigger the government, the more bureaucracy, more difficult to control as a tool and easier to conceal corruption. A small government breeds free citizens. A big government breeds corruption.
    - ppseafield 8y ago
      And it means that that accountability is worth less. The argument goes the same way against big corporations - the more difficult they are to control, and it's easier to conceal corruption. A small government breeds free corporations - free to grind their employees to a pulp in the company towns of not so long ago, free to send thugs to the ballot box to make sure you vote for the right person, free to pay you in company dollars only and then gouge you in the company store.
      - zozbot123 8y ago
        > ... free to grind their employees to a pulp in the company towns of not so long ago, free to send thugs to the ballot box to make sure you vote for the right person, free to pay you in company dollars only and then gouge you in the company store. Ah, but who's more likely to do these things? Free corporations that must vigorously compete against any new upstarts, or corrupt ones led by government cronies, that can easily erect a convenient "moat" against competition, fully supported by government coercion? Hint: look at which countries do these things in practice. It's not the "small government", economically free ones.
        ppseafield 8y ago
        > Ah, but who's more likely to do these things? Look no further than the United States and its historical relationship with labor and corporations (when its government was much smaller), for the reasons you just quoted. I'm not saying "big government" guarantees the opposite, but corporations have already shown us what they will do with less restrictions and oversight. They'll fill spice cans with dust and sell it as black pepper. They'll penalize break time so heavily that workers will have to defecate where they stand in the sausage plant. They'll pay as little as possible and almost-starve their employees so that they have no energy or resources to do anything except continue working.
- yongjik 8y ago
  Am I reading HN Christmas Special Edition, or is it the case recently that one cannot read any comment thread without finding "government is evil" flamefest?
  - dgzl 8y ago
    I suppose you're right, but how many stories are the direct result of corrupt government? Not this one it seems. I'll try to keep the comments more relevant.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

dgzl 8y ago

And I'm just over here, advocating for a smaller and less powerful government. Edit: I found a quick way to lose HN points, simply show support for smaller government.

jeklj 8y ago
Interesting, do tell us more about your efforts in advocacy.
azinman2 8y ago
Smaller gov doesn’t mean a less barbaric / violent one. Nor does it mean smaller gov mean less tyranny or silencing of voice.
- fromthestart 8y ago
  That's literally what it means. "Small government" is about limiting institutional power, because only through power can a government impose tyranny and/or barbarism. Opression requires power, which people have the capacity to limit in first world democracies, and to a lesser extent in non democratic nations through various forms of resistance. Of course this assumes that less violence, barbarism, and/or government opression represents the will of the populace...
  - azinman2 8y ago
    You’re incorrectly assuming government is the only source of violence or tyranny.
    - dgzl 8y ago
      I don't see anywhere that they're assuming that.
    - fromthestart 8y ago
      From my comment: >Of course this assumes that less violence, barbarism, and/or government opression represents the will of the populace... Not at all. However, what you seem to be assuming is that government size is independent of measures of tyrrany and opression. I contend that the the size of government is directly proportional to tyranny and opression. We should take a moment to define terms here: by size in this context I refer to scope of operations and, by necessity, authority. In which case a larger government is by definition more opressive, in that authoritarianism past some point is itself opression, as it requires involuntary imposition of rules and restriction of freedoms. Small government is a hedge against authoritarianism and the tyranny that naturally follows when your life is increasingly micromanaged.
      - tim333 8y ago
        The most common measure of size of government is spending as a percent of GDP. Some examples Finland 56% of GPD Afghanistan 12% I don't buy your contention that size of government is directly proportional to tyranny and opression.
        fromthestart 8y ago
        >The most common measure of size of government Well sure, if you define size of government as such. What about instead number of regulating agencies and their relative budgets? What about legislation and imprisonment? I would argue that, at least by the classical conservative definition, small government is less about GDP and more about restriction of freedoms and invasion of privacy. Not to imply that some degree of both may be necessary for a functioning society.
        dgzl 8y ago
        Using terms like 'big' and 'small' when referring to governments doesn't necessarily have to mean just financially or regulatory. In more serious terms, it can be used to mean tyrannical, such as becoming 'bigger' than our human rights. How's this for a thought: How 'big' do we want our government to become? Personally I would have liked to stop before Bush signed the Patriot Act, or before we bum-rushed the middle-east with no intention of leaving, or before the NSA created their god machine, or before Obama resigned the Patriot Act several times. Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favor of immediately stripping regulations and defending redundant agencies, but I am interested in immediately cutting off the hand that's reaching up Lady-Liberty's skirt.
- dgzl 8y ago
  A smaller government means easier to keep authorities accountable. The bigger the government, the more bureaucracy, more difficult to control as a tool and easier to conceal corruption. A small government breeds free citizens. A big government breeds corruption.
  - ppseafield 8y ago
    And it means that that accountability is worth less. The argument goes the same way against big corporations - the more difficult they are to control, and it's easier to conceal corruption. A small government breeds free corporations - free to grind their employees to a pulp in the company towns of not so long ago, free to send thugs to the ballot box to make sure you vote for the right person, free to pay you in company dollars only and then gouge you in the company store.
    - zozbot123 8y ago
      > ... free to grind their employees to a pulp in the company towns of not so long ago, free to send thugs to the ballot box to make sure you vote for the right person, free to pay you in company dollars only and then gouge you in the company store. Ah, but who's more likely to do these things? Free corporations that must vigorously compete against any new upstarts, or corrupt ones led by government cronies, that can easily erect a convenient "moat" against competition, fully supported by government coercion? Hint: look at which countries do these things in practice. It's not the "small government", economically free ones.
      - ppseafield 8y ago
        > Ah, but who's more likely to do these things? Look no further than the United States and its historical relationship with labor and corporations (when its government was much smaller), for the reasons you just quoted. I'm not saying "big government" guarantees the opposite, but corporations have already shown us what they will do with less restrictions and oversight. They'll fill spice cans with dust and sell it as black pepper. They'll penalize break time so heavily that workers will have to defecate where they stand in the sausage plant. They'll pay as little as possible and almost-starve their employees so that they have no energy or resources to do anything except continue working.
yongjik 8y ago
Am I reading HN Christmas Special Edition, or is it the case recently that one cannot read any comment thread without finding "government is evil" flamefest?
- dgzl 8y ago
  I suppose you're right, but how many stories are the direct result of corrupt government? Not this one it seems. I'll try to keep the comments more relevant.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]