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> France in particular still operates a monetary zone that operates in 14 African countries in its former colonial obit The countries are free to leave the Fra

> France in particular still operates a monetary zone that operates in 14 African countries in its former colonial obit The countries are free to leave the Franc CFA, some of them did and came back, having a stable currency you can trust on in the region is invaluable so they keep it on purpose. Especially that they can trade with their neighbours much more easily.

dovvdkc 8y ago
Free if the leader escapes the assasination attempt from the French special forces. The Convertible franc was clearly an attempt from France to dilute the effects of its inflationary spending by spreading it over its former colonies.
kolikotime 8y ago
While we can debate the relative merits and demerits of the CFA, it is still quite very strange and quite frankly colonial that the arrangement continues.And there have been coups in the past in the West African subregion which call into doubt this argument that Francophone African states have much sovereignty to change the situation. Furthermore, regardless of the relative merits and demerits of the monetary zone, it can't be denied that France has an overt influence on its former colonies. Most of West Africa is essentially a French backyard policywise as France's political economy is highly dependent on African natural resources(Oil from Gabon, Uranium from Niger, Maganese and phosphate from some of the smaller Franco West African states). France's behavior is quite strange especially when one can see how Britain, Spain, Portugal and Italy largely don't politically matter on the continent anymore. Lastly, one just has to compare the state of Francophone African states towards most of the Anglo states, they are on by definition normally poorer and more fragile. The likes of Togo, Mali, Niger, Chad, Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, and Guinea are on the whole basketcases, and play a part in why West Africa, which is the region China has lended to the most is the poorest.
- realusername 8y ago
  > While we can debate the relative merits and demerits of the CFA, it is still quite very strange and quite frankly colonial that the arrangement continues. It continues because it's becoming an African euro-zone, having the same currency is invaluable. Especially that the African currencies don't have a reputation for stability. It's not a coincidence Mali & Guinea left and then came back in. > Lastly, one just has to compare the state of Francophone African states towards most of the Anglo states, they are on by definition normally poorer and more fragile I don't really agree with that, you have counter example in both cases, on my case I could point Cote d'Ivoire where the Bank of Africa is located and on the other Anglo side you have Uganda which isn't exactly an example of a rich country, the Franc CFA definitely helped for that.
  - kolikotime 8y ago
    West Africa, the region with the most greatest number of Francophone states and influence is largely the poorest African region(some like to argue Central Africa, but people debate its composition and shape more readily than West Africa). My experiences in the region often reveal great resentment with the nature of French involvement within their political economy. Now you may disagree with that and think its all hunky dory in those countries, but for me its quite strange as a Ghanaian American to see, and we often feel sorry for them. We feel especially sorry for Togo, our bordering country next door which has lived under a family dynasty for 51 years, a dynasty overtly supported by France. And we definitely felt sorry for Ivory Coast when French special forces busted into their presidential palace to resolve a domestic electoral dispute. But hey CFA Franc, stability and all that, yeah!
    - ethbro 8y ago
      > And we definitely felt sorry for Ivory Coast when French special forces busted into their presidential palace to resolve a domestic electoral dispute. You're referring to French forces arresting Laurent Gbagbo when he refused to cede power after losing the 2010 election? Allowing his winning opponent to assume the presidency? Extraditing Gbagbo to stand trial at ICC in The Hague? Where there's a chance he might be acquitted of the crimes against humanity he's charged with for formenting election violence that killed 1,400+ people? As far as terrible abuses of colonial power, enabling the transition to a democratically elected government and trying the former leader in a fair court of law (where he stands a chance of defending himself) isn't the best example.
noch 8y ago
> The countries are free to leave the Franc CFA [...] Claiming these former colonies are "free" is perhaps a deep misunderstanding of what "free" means. Consider: https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/france-still-robbing-its-former-african-colonies https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/france-still-robbing-it...
- realusername 8y ago
  Pretty much every point in this article is demonstrably false and unsourced, it would take me a good 30min to debunk all of these (I might do it if I have time) but please don't trust anything written in this blog.
  - noch 8y ago
    > [...] it would take me a good 30min to debunk all of these (I might do it if I have time) [...] Claiming something is demonstrably false, then saying 30 minutes is too much time to spend demonstrating alleged falsehoods, in a debate on a forum where you've already been engaged in other responses to the same debate over time... I shared the article in good faith, as part of the debate. Am I then to assume the article (as well as others that suggest similar points[0]) is false simply because you've said so? "It could be claimed that the countries that operate with these currencies might freely leave the arrangement at any time. In truth, dozens of African leaders, from Silvanus Olympio in Togo to Muammar Gaddafi in Libya, have tried in recent decades to replace these tools of monetary and financial control with a new common African currency. Almost all of them - with the possible exception of Malian President Modibo Keïta (1915-77) - have been killed or overthrown the very moment in which their attempts were close to succeeding." [1] [0] http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2017/07/12/the-cfa-franc-french-monetary-imperialism-in-africa/ http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2017/07/12/the-cfa-franc-... [1] https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/torpedoing-africa-complaining-migration-180817133759141.html https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/torpedoing-africa-...

dovvdkc 8y ago

Free if the leader escapes the assasination attempt from the French special forces. The Convertible franc was clearly an attempt from France to dilute the effects of its inflationary spending by spreading it over its former colonies.

kolikotime 8y ago

While we can debate the relative merits and demerits of the CFA, it is still quite very strange and quite frankly colonial that the arrangement continues.And there have been coups in the past in the West African subregion which call into doubt this argument that Francophone African states have much sovereignty to change the situation. Furthermore, regardless of the relative merits and demerits of the monetary zone, it can't be denied that France has an overt influence on its former colonies. Most of West Africa is essentially a French backyard policywise as France's political economy is highly dependent on African natural resources(Oil from Gabon, Uranium from Niger, Maganese and phosphate from some of the smaller Franco West African states). France's behavior is quite strange especially when one can see how Britain, Spain, Portugal and Italy largely don't politically matter on the continent anymore. Lastly, one just has to compare the state of Francophone African states towards most of the Anglo states, they are on by definition normally poorer and more fragile. The likes of Togo, Mali, Niger, Chad, Burkina Faso, Central African Republic, and Guinea are on the whole basketcases, and play a part in why West Africa, which is the region China has lended to the most is the poorest.

realusername 8y ago
> While we can debate the relative merits and demerits of the CFA, it is still quite very strange and quite frankly colonial that the arrangement continues. It continues because it's becoming an African euro-zone, having the same currency is invaluable. Especially that the African currencies don't have a reputation for stability. It's not a coincidence Mali & Guinea left and then came back in. > Lastly, one just has to compare the state of Francophone African states towards most of the Anglo states, they are on by definition normally poorer and more fragile I don't really agree with that, you have counter example in both cases, on my case I could point Cote d'Ivoire where the Bank of Africa is located and on the other Anglo side you have Uganda which isn't exactly an example of a rich country, the Franc CFA definitely helped for that.
- kolikotime 8y ago
  West Africa, the region with the most greatest number of Francophone states and influence is largely the poorest African region(some like to argue Central Africa, but people debate its composition and shape more readily than West Africa). My experiences in the region often reveal great resentment with the nature of French involvement within their political economy. Now you may disagree with that and think its all hunky dory in those countries, but for me its quite strange as a Ghanaian American to see, and we often feel sorry for them. We feel especially sorry for Togo, our bordering country next door which has lived under a family dynasty for 51 years, a dynasty overtly supported by France. And we definitely felt sorry for Ivory Coast when French special forces busted into their presidential palace to resolve a domestic electoral dispute. But hey CFA Franc, stability and all that, yeah!
  - ethbro 8y ago
    > And we definitely felt sorry for Ivory Coast when French special forces busted into their presidential palace to resolve a domestic electoral dispute. You're referring to French forces arresting Laurent Gbagbo when he refused to cede power after losing the 2010 election? Allowing his winning opponent to assume the presidency? Extraditing Gbagbo to stand trial at ICC in The Hague? Where there's a chance he might be acquitted of the crimes against humanity he's charged with for formenting election violence that killed 1,400+ people? As far as terrible abuses of colonial power, enabling the transition to a democratically elected government and trying the former leader in a fair court of law (where he stands a chance of defending himself) isn't the best example.

noch 8y ago

> The countries are free to leave the Franc CFA [...] Claiming these former colonies are "free" is perhaps a deep misunderstanding of what "free" means. Consider: https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/france-still-robbing-its-former-african-colonies https://www.pambazuka.org/governance/france-still-robbing-it...

realusername 8y ago
Pretty much every point in this article is demonstrably false and unsourced, it would take me a good 30min to debunk all of these (I might do it if I have time) but please don't trust anything written in this blog.
- noch 8y ago
  > [...] it would take me a good 30min to debunk all of these (I might do it if I have time) [...] Claiming something is demonstrably false, then saying 30 minutes is too much time to spend demonstrating alleged falsehoods, in a debate on a forum where you've already been engaged in other responses to the same debate over time... I shared the article in good faith, as part of the debate. Am I then to assume the article (as well as others that suggest similar points[0]) is false simply because you've said so? "It could be claimed that the countries that operate with these currencies might freely leave the arrangement at any time. In truth, dozens of African leaders, from Silvanus Olympio in Togo to Muammar Gaddafi in Libya, have tried in recent decades to replace these tools of monetary and financial control with a new common African currency. Almost all of them - with the possible exception of Malian President Modibo Keïta (1915-77) - have been killed or overthrown the very moment in which their attempts were close to succeeding." [1] [0] http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2017/07/12/the-cfa-franc-french-monetary-imperialism-in-africa/ http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/africaatlse/2017/07/12/the-cfa-franc-... [1] https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/torpedoing-africa-complaining-migration-180817133759141.html https://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/torpedoing-africa-...