5 ms·

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think our society is becoming a more and more observed and cataloged as time goes on which isn't the best thing when coupled with

by moate 8y ago

I mean, don't get me wrong, I think our society is becoming a more and more observed and cataloged as time goes on which isn't the best thing when coupled with growing distrust in government behavior, but the examples you give really don't help the cause there comrade. Your point really sounds like "I'm glad I'm able to create a more believable fake identity online so I can commit crimes and not get busted!"

perfmode 8y ago
Yeah. We need to protect human rights. We don’t need mechanisms to subvert just means of accountability. It’s true that the same tools may cut both ways, but let’s keep in perspective what ends are of collective value.
- mindslight 8y ago
  This philosophy is plainly false with the ongoing criminalization of victimless behavior. Most all drug possession is still heavily penalized for no collective benefit. Meanwhile the crooks on Wall Street continue unhindered, with no sign that accountability will ever come. Especially alarming is the push to tie Internet activity to real world identities, under the guise of post-facto accountability. The Internet is a medium which purposely eschewed ambient enforcement in lieu of end-to-end intelligence, and yet we're continually seeing (many successful) pushes to drag us back to that legacy post-facto natural-language imperfect-enforcement regime that benefits those in power.
CraneWorm 8y ago
Well I AM glad to be able to create a more believable fake identity online. Being able to commit crimes and not get busted is just one of the many perks that come with it.
- no-s 8y ago
  especially when the crimes were created to secure the power of the state at the expense of the individual rights, e.g. to ensure the supremacy of one class over another. Government is not synonymous with justice.
  - FiveSquared 8y ago
    True, but it’s a nesscary evil man. Government is created for organizing a colleticve response. If their was a way to stop blatantly evil things like murder without the need for centralized power and centralized response, I’m all ears. Unfortunately, humans are hard-wired to create and maintain athority.
- moate 8y ago
  Let's just clear up my stance here: "I want to be able to create a fake identity online..." Fine. Great. Have at it! Privacy and anonymity, what marvels in this modern age! "...in order to evade the law while I commit crimes, or escape the law after my past crimes." Ehhhhh...this is a rough bit folks. Listen, you want to pitch full on class war, us vs the government "there is no just man working for the injustice of tyranny" sort of shit, that's fine. It's just that's the sort of shit that gets the government involved MUCH faster. I just feel a bit of subtlety might be better in the earlier goings. I understand that a knife can be used to make food or kill a man but you don't see most knife manufacturers advertising how quickly they can gut somebody for good reason. That's all I'm trying to say.
  - c22 8y ago
    But your stance is hyperbolic because the original poster didn't say they wanted anonymity so they could commit crimes, they said they appreciated the option to "leave their past behind". Presumably if one is "in the system" they've already been caught and punished for their crime. I totally understand the desire to be able to move forward without the cloud of your past looming over you, and to be honest, I imagine the ability to do so may increase someone's chances of living the remainder of their life in an upstanding manner. Also, as you must know, a disturbingly large proportion of "ex-cons" have trumped up charges on their record or were even completely innocent as our modern judicial systems prioritize efficiency over truth.
    - moate 8y ago
      IDK, is it? "Speeding tickets can catch up to you..." Those only "catch up to you" if you're not paying them. INAL, but I'm not sure there's many situations where having paid speeding tickets is affecting your life that greatly (unless you're trying to commit insurance fraud by misrepresenting your past). Again, I get the idea that there are people who are failed by the system and the way they're forced to right this wrong is by pretending to be someone new. I'm not even opposed to the idea! But OP is doing a terrible selling the idea to people who aren't on board by framing it that way. I don't even think you need to pointedly obtuse to construe his statement the way I did. If you're going to say "this tool is helpful because the system itself is problematic and possibly corrupted to the point that in the near future the best solution is to circumvent the system rather than reforming it" you need to work pretty hard to pitch that to a mainstream crowd. Edited addendum: While OP didn't say they want the ability to commit crimes, it took about 20 minutes before a different poster literally said he did, so the intent/desire is out there and pretty obvious.
- drusepth 8y ago
  I honestly can't tell if this is satirical or not, but I hope so.

by moate 8y ago

perfmode 8y ago

Yeah. We need to protect human rights. We don’t need mechanisms to subvert just means of accountability. It’s true that the same tools may cut both ways, but let’s keep in perspective what ends are of collective value.

mindslight 8y ago
This philosophy is plainly false with the ongoing criminalization of victimless behavior. Most all drug possession is still heavily penalized for no collective benefit. Meanwhile the crooks on Wall Street continue unhindered, with no sign that accountability will ever come. Especially alarming is the push to tie Internet activity to real world identities, under the guise of post-facto accountability. The Internet is a medium which purposely eschewed ambient enforcement in lieu of end-to-end intelligence, and yet we're continually seeing (many successful) pushes to drag us back to that legacy post-facto natural-language imperfect-enforcement regime that benefits those in power.

CraneWorm 8y ago

Well I AM glad to be able to create a more believable fake identity online. Being able to commit crimes and not get busted is just one of the many perks that come with it.

no-s 8y ago
especially when the crimes were created to secure the power of the state at the expense of the individual rights, e.g. to ensure the supremacy of one class over another. Government is not synonymous with justice.
- FiveSquared 8y ago
  True, but it’s a nesscary evil man. Government is created for organizing a colleticve response. If their was a way to stop blatantly evil things like murder without the need for centralized power and centralized response, I’m all ears. Unfortunately, humans are hard-wired to create and maintain athority.
moate 8y ago
Let's just clear up my stance here: "I want to be able to create a fake identity online..." Fine. Great. Have at it! Privacy and anonymity, what marvels in this modern age! "...in order to evade the law while I commit crimes, or escape the law after my past crimes." Ehhhhh...this is a rough bit folks. Listen, you want to pitch full on class war, us vs the government "there is no just man working for the injustice of tyranny" sort of shit, that's fine. It's just that's the sort of shit that gets the government involved MUCH faster. I just feel a bit of subtlety might be better in the earlier goings. I understand that a knife can be used to make food or kill a man but you don't see most knife manufacturers advertising how quickly they can gut somebody for good reason. That's all I'm trying to say.
- c22 8y ago
  But your stance is hyperbolic because the original poster didn't say they wanted anonymity so they could commit crimes, they said they appreciated the option to "leave their past behind". Presumably if one is "in the system" they've already been caught and punished for their crime. I totally understand the desire to be able to move forward without the cloud of your past looming over you, and to be honest, I imagine the ability to do so may increase someone's chances of living the remainder of their life in an upstanding manner. Also, as you must know, a disturbingly large proportion of "ex-cons" have trumped up charges on their record or were even completely innocent as our modern judicial systems prioritize efficiency over truth.
  - moate 8y ago
    IDK, is it? "Speeding tickets can catch up to you..." Those only "catch up to you" if you're not paying them. INAL, but I'm not sure there's many situations where having paid speeding tickets is affecting your life that greatly (unless you're trying to commit insurance fraud by misrepresenting your past). Again, I get the idea that there are people who are failed by the system and the way they're forced to right this wrong is by pretending to be someone new. I'm not even opposed to the idea! But OP is doing a terrible selling the idea to people who aren't on board by framing it that way. I don't even think you need to pointedly obtuse to construe his statement the way I did. If you're going to say "this tool is helpful because the system itself is problematic and possibly corrupted to the point that in the near future the best solution is to circumvent the system rather than reforming it" you need to work pretty hard to pitch that to a mainstream crowd. Edited addendum: While OP didn't say they want the ability to commit crimes, it took about 20 minutes before a different poster literally said he did, so the intent/desire is out there and pretty obvious.
drusepth 8y ago
I honestly can't tell if this is satirical or not, but I hope so.