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rich loan to poor to get richer. this is new to you? you think china is the first or the last to do this? IMF is doing this wherever they can. the west is annoy

rich loan to poor to get richer. this is new to you? you think china is the first or the last to do this? IMF is doing this wherever they can. the west is annoyed china is doing this too so they push all these "amg china is evil" articles to stir the pot and try to turn the locals against chinese.

icebraining 8y ago
I'm not sure comparing China with the IMF will help your case; at least in my Western European country, the IMF is itself considered evil by many.
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  Much easier to blame the IMF than the fact that if you want to spend more than you take in in taxes you’re going to have inflation and currency depreciation unless you have capital controls. Also, the IMF doesn’t really lend large amounts of money to countries that can access global capital markets generally. Non-concessional lending is mostly for when no one will lend your country money because you’re not expected to be able to repay. Concessional lending is interest free so I struggle to see how they’re supposed to make money on that.
- werber 8y ago
  American's are largely unaware of the IMF and World Bank. It's not something that is mentioned in any huge way. I'd be surprised if more than 15% of the country could give a broad definition of each organization.
Agathos 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
seibelj 8y ago
No one takes money from the IMF unless they are so screwed that they have no other options. The reason they have no one willing to lend to them is that their government has enacted policies that destroyed their economy and the IMF requires concrete changes to get them back on the right track. The alternative to taking an IMF loan is so bad (collapse of country) that they take it. It isn’t the IMF’s fault, it’s what happens when those in power loot their country via corruption, huge bloated public sectors, unsustainable pensions, crony capitalism, etc.
- raprp 8y ago
  How can this be downvoted? Did Argentina get trapped in debt with IMF because a meteor hit Buenos Aires? Did a tsunami hit Athens? These countries burned through their reserves with no responsibility at all, reserves which were hard earned money from the population, and people demonize the IMF alone?
  - seibelj 8y ago
    It has become popular on the left to blame the IMF for a country’s problems, when the IMF is the last resort for a country that has shot itself in the foot. Some people can’t handle reality when it conflicts with their fantasy.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - AsyncAwait 8y ago
      As someone on 'the left', the criticism are both of the IMF and the local governments. Pretending however that the IMF does not play a role in many 'misfortunes' is laughable. It is also ignorant to pretend that because Africa has been more or less 'independent' for over 40 years, that the history of colonialism should be discounted as having no effect on the present anymore. This does not mean that the countries themselves should bear no responsibility and few are making that claim.
      - simplecomplex 8y ago
        And what's the left's proposed solution? More forgiving terms or no money at all available?
        AsyncAwait 8y ago
        Since 'the left' isn't a monolithic entity, it's hard to describe a singular solution that we all agree on, or even name everything off the top of my head, but in my view, a good start would be to stop overthrowing people that do not open markets sufficiently to our interests, try to limit trade in USD/EUR etc. or otherwise do not align with 'our' interests. More favorable terms would also certainly help, so would actually listening to the local populace, instead of handing money to a corrupt central government. Corruption itself mostly stems from lack of sufficient resources and progression for everybody, which is not helped by pouring more money into the very machine powering it. NGOs can also be incredibly corrupt and wasteful, see Haiti. Instead of sending in money, fund concrete projects to build infrastructure and provide good paying jobs by having locals build it. Work with local communities to set up small businesses and help them set up networks to export their goods etc. There's plenty of failures to study from and some successes that need to be expanded. The big problems with such projects tends to be that even when the "grand goal" is good, if you will, locals are not consulted, farmers are displaced etc. which only breeds hatred towards the people telling themselves they're helping. Stop being arrogant and thinking that we "know better" than the people who actually live in the area. Might be a good starting point. What is the right's solution? Repeat what was done till now and expect a different result, do not participate at all...?
wsc981 8y ago
I am not sure why your comment was downvoted. I thought it's well known how the IMF ruins countries and I feel the modus operandi of the IMF isn't that much different from perhaps what China is doing right now. Except, now it's not the Western world / the US (through the IMF) that indirectly is pulling the strings anymore. I feel the Western world is not in a position to judge China in this while the IMF is preventing third world countries from developing through its policies in much the same way. Read also this: http://www.globalissues.org/article/3/structural-adjustment-a-major-cause-of-poverty http://www.globalissues.org/article/3/structural-adjustment-...
melling 8y ago
I never said it was new to me. I said I read articles this year that claimed this was happening. It appears to be true. If you have articles about the IMF, I would love to read them. More transparency and a better understanding of how the world works is always welcome.

icebraining 8y ago

I'm not sure comparing China with the IMF will help your case; at least in my Western European country, the IMF is itself considered evil by many.

barry-cotter 8y ago
Much easier to blame the IMF than the fact that if you want to spend more than you take in in taxes you’re going to have inflation and currency depreciation unless you have capital controls. Also, the IMF doesn’t really lend large amounts of money to countries that can access global capital markets generally. Non-concessional lending is mostly for when no one will lend your country money because you’re not expected to be able to repay. Concessional lending is interest free so I struggle to see how they’re supposed to make money on that.
werber 8y ago
American's are largely unaware of the IMF and World Bank. It's not something that is mentioned in any huge way. I'd be surprised if more than 15% of the country could give a broad definition of each organization.

Agathos 8y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

seibelj 8y ago

No one takes money from the IMF unless they are so screwed that they have no other options. The reason they have no one willing to lend to them is that their government has enacted policies that destroyed their economy and the IMF requires concrete changes to get them back on the right track. The alternative to taking an IMF loan is so bad (collapse of country) that they take it. It isn’t the IMF’s fault, it’s what happens when those in power loot their country via corruption, huge bloated public sectors, unsustainable pensions, crony capitalism, etc.

raprp 8y ago
How can this be downvoted? Did Argentina get trapped in debt with IMF because a meteor hit Buenos Aires? Did a tsunami hit Athens? These countries burned through their reserves with no responsibility at all, reserves which were hard earned money from the population, and people demonize the IMF alone?
- seibelj 8y ago
  It has become popular on the left to blame the IMF for a country’s problems, when the IMF is the last resort for a country that has shot itself in the foot. Some people can’t handle reality when it conflicts with their fantasy.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - AsyncAwait 8y ago
    As someone on 'the left', the criticism are both of the IMF and the local governments. Pretending however that the IMF does not play a role in many 'misfortunes' is laughable. It is also ignorant to pretend that because Africa has been more or less 'independent' for over 40 years, that the history of colonialism should be discounted as having no effect on the present anymore. This does not mean that the countries themselves should bear no responsibility and few are making that claim.
    - simplecomplex 8y ago
      And what's the left's proposed solution? More forgiving terms or no money at all available?
      - AsyncAwait 8y ago
        Since 'the left' isn't a monolithic entity, it's hard to describe a singular solution that we all agree on, or even name everything off the top of my head, but in my view, a good start would be to stop overthrowing people that do not open markets sufficiently to our interests, try to limit trade in USD/EUR etc. or otherwise do not align with 'our' interests. More favorable terms would also certainly help, so would actually listening to the local populace, instead of handing money to a corrupt central government. Corruption itself mostly stems from lack of sufficient resources and progression for everybody, which is not helped by pouring more money into the very machine powering it. NGOs can also be incredibly corrupt and wasteful, see Haiti. Instead of sending in money, fund concrete projects to build infrastructure and provide good paying jobs by having locals build it. Work with local communities to set up small businesses and help them set up networks to export their goods etc. There's plenty of failures to study from and some successes that need to be expanded. The big problems with such projects tends to be that even when the "grand goal" is good, if you will, locals are not consulted, farmers are displaced etc. which only breeds hatred towards the people telling themselves they're helping. Stop being arrogant and thinking that we "know better" than the people who actually live in the area. Might be a good starting point. What is the right's solution? Repeat what was done till now and expect a different result, do not participate at all...?

wsc981 8y ago

I am not sure why your comment was downvoted. I thought it's well known how the IMF ruins countries and I feel the modus operandi of the IMF isn't that much different from perhaps what China is doing right now. Except, now it's not the Western world / the US (through the IMF) that indirectly is pulling the strings anymore. I feel the Western world is not in a position to judge China in this while the IMF is preventing third world countries from developing through its policies in much the same way. Read also this: http://www.globalissues.org/article/3/structural-adjustment-a-major-cause-of-poverty http://www.globalissues.org/article/3/structural-adjustment-...

melling 8y ago

I never said it was new to me. I said I read articles this year that claimed this was happening. It appears to be true. If you have articles about the IMF, I would love to read them. More transparency and a better understanding of how the world works is always welcome.