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> And even if what was claimed to happen did happen, it's not at all clear to me that it was some horrible thing that deserves somebody being jailed or being pu

> And even if what was claimed to happen did happen, it's not at all clear to me that it was some horrible thing that deserves somebody being jailed or being punished for the rest of their life for. So forcing one's hand in to or near someones underwear is acceptable behavior? It's a crime. Whether under or above clothing, it is a crime.

mkramlich 16y ago
perhaps it should not be a crime. I think about things like this, and compare it to say the US-Iraq situation, one in which no US leaders have been charged with any crime, and I'm just shocked really. It feels like living in some Orwellian mad house. Perspectives and priorities are so backward. Hand in/on/near/above another person's clothes/underwear --- CRIME! ALERT THE POLICE! JAIL TIME! Invade another country on the explicit premise and justification of threat of imminent use of WMD's by that country, causing thousands of US and Iraqi deaths, which turns out there were no WMD's and the US administration appears to have spun matters and manipulated the public and Congress into getting the mandate to it -- not a crime. Oops. No big deal. A simple mistake. Oh well. It's life. Let's move on. Back to prosecuting the hands-in-panties situations! :)
- elliottcarlson 16y ago
  This article/post is not about what was or wasn't a crime during the war (this or any other) - nor was it about politics and how you or I feel about the way things are running within the government. Perhaps you should realize the pain this "non-issue" causes people on a day to day basis. I hope your mom, sister or wife - perhaps your daughter or your best female friend - NEVER have to deal with such a situation - sadly this is not the case and at least one of those mentioned will experience it to some degree. Let's see how you feel about it then. Anyhow that is all I have to say about this - I won't feed the troll anymore.
  - mkramlich 16y ago
    It's obvious that the OA and thread is not primarily about war. That's obvious. What should have been obvious, I hoped, was that I was making a point about comparing the act we were talking about with another, arguably much much more heinous and violent and massive act, and one that has not been considered a crime. I was trying to put things in perspective. I honestly feel sometimes that America is some Orwellian madhouse when it comes to sex and violence and warfare and say massive financial matters. Weird private things involving two people or a mere $50, where no physical harm is done, and could be attributed to alcohol and misreading body language can be considered much bigger crimes and acts of evil than something involving definite physical damage, or millions or billions of dollars, and the sickening, crippling or loss of thousands or in some cases millions of lives. It's hilarious in some insane tragic way, I think. And you shouldn't imply I'm a troll, that's pretty rude.
    - elliottcarlson 16y ago
      Based off of your comments throughout this thread, it seemed/seems quite clear, to me at least, that you were and are trolling. But that's my opinion - guess we are all entitled to having one - so I will entitle you to yours - as fucked up and delusional I might think it is.

mkramlich 16y ago

perhaps it should not be a crime. I think about things like this, and compare it to say the US-Iraq situation, one in which no US leaders have been charged with any crime, and I'm just shocked really. It feels like living in some Orwellian mad house. Perspectives and priorities are so backward. Hand in/on/near/above another person's clothes/underwear --- CRIME! ALERT THE POLICE! JAIL TIME! Invade another country on the explicit premise and justification of threat of imminent use of WMD's by that country, causing thousands of US and Iraqi deaths, which turns out there were no WMD's and the US administration appears to have spun matters and manipulated the public and Congress into getting the mandate to it -- not a crime. Oops. No big deal. A simple mistake. Oh well. It's life. Let's move on. Back to prosecuting the hands-in-panties situations! :)

elliottcarlson 16y ago
This article/post is not about what was or wasn't a crime during the war (this or any other) - nor was it about politics and how you or I feel about the way things are running within the government. Perhaps you should realize the pain this "non-issue" causes people on a day to day basis. I hope your mom, sister or wife - perhaps your daughter or your best female friend - NEVER have to deal with such a situation - sadly this is not the case and at least one of those mentioned will experience it to some degree. Let's see how you feel about it then. Anyhow that is all I have to say about this - I won't feed the troll anymore.
- mkramlich 16y ago
  It's obvious that the OA and thread is not primarily about war. That's obvious. What should have been obvious, I hoped, was that I was making a point about comparing the act we were talking about with another, arguably much much more heinous and violent and massive act, and one that has not been considered a crime. I was trying to put things in perspective. I honestly feel sometimes that America is some Orwellian madhouse when it comes to sex and violence and warfare and say massive financial matters. Weird private things involving two people or a mere $50, where no physical harm is done, and could be attributed to alcohol and misreading body language can be considered much bigger crimes and acts of evil than something involving definite physical damage, or millions or billions of dollars, and the sickening, crippling or loss of thousands or in some cases millions of lives. It's hilarious in some insane tragic way, I think. And you shouldn't imply I'm a troll, that's pretty rude.
  - elliottcarlson 16y ago
    Based off of your comments throughout this thread, it seemed/seems quite clear, to me at least, that you were and are trolling. But that's my opinion - guess we are all entitled to having one - so I will entitle you to yours - as fucked up and delusional I might think it is.