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Matrix works great with Freenode. What exactly is the problem? How does it not map? I authenticated with my freenode nick/password, and it's acting as a regular

Matrix works great with Freenode. What exactly is the problem? How does it not map? I authenticated with my freenode nick/password, and it's acting as a regular bouncer pretty much…

vertex-four 8y ago
There’s a number of larger channels which have banned Matrix users, and various smaller channels I’m in have been considering banning them due to the privacy concerns of Matrix.org (based in the U.K., iirc, and potentially subject to an easy court order requiring them to release their data) keeping a full, eternal log of all communications in any irc channel where a Matrix user has joined. Freenode is also not the entirety of IRC.
- Arathorn 8y ago
  The main reason why some channels have banned Matrix in the past was instability in the bridge causing occasional netsplit style behaviour where all the Matrix users would bulk-part and bulk-join. Since stability was fixed earlier this year, it should no longer be a concern. In terms of privacy concerns: yes, Matrix.org is currently provided by a UK legal entity, just as many IRC servers are too. But if you want privacy from a malicious server admin or government or whoever then you should be using end-to-end encryption, and you shouldn't be using IRC. I'm not sure the legal jurisdiction makes much difference (unless the UK outlaws E2E, which then becomes a whole new can of worms). If you're worried about the fact that Matrix rooms contain scrollback, then it's (again) unfortunate that nobody has cared enough about this to file a bug on https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues to request configurable retention per bridge. Meanwhile, https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/447 https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/447 i s the general spec issue if you'd like to upvote or comment on it. But in the end, Matrix is FOSS, and we kinda hope that folks will contribute stuff like this that we simply haven't got to yet.
  - vertex-four 8y ago
    It is, in general, not a concern of IRC users that Matrix is broken past what they need to do to protect themselves from it, and attempting to fob Matrix development off on them is really not on. While I agree that many communications should go over e2e chat, there are a number of low-real-risk channels on IRC that occasionally discuss drugs and similar, and adding the additional risk vector that ten years down the line some prosecutor decides to dig the logs up through Matrix.org when everyone else has long since lost them isn’t really cool. My understanding from last time I went through the codebase is that logs will not be deleted even if all Matrix users leave the room.
    - Arathorn 8y ago
      > attempting to fob Matrix development off on them is really not on. My point is that if you have requirements for a bridge (eg configurable scrollback retention), you should submit a feature req to let us know about it at the time rather than ragequitting and telling people that matrix is broken. Anyway, point taken that we need to make scrollback retention configurable (whether for bridging or in general); have bumped it up the todo list.
- floatboth 8y ago
  Oh, right, the log "issue". I think it's extremely naive to try to keep an "unlogged" IRC channel, since any user could secretly "leak" the logs.

Matrix works great with Freenode. What exactly is the problem? How does it not map? I authenticated with my freenode nick/password, and it's acting as a regular bouncer pretty much…

vertex-four 8y ago

There’s a number of larger channels which have banned Matrix users, and various smaller channels I’m in have been considering banning them due to the privacy concerns of Matrix.org (based in the U.K., iirc, and potentially subject to an easy court order requiring them to release their data) keeping a full, eternal log of all communications in any irc channel where a Matrix user has joined. Freenode is also not the entirety of IRC.

Arathorn 8y ago
The main reason why some channels have banned Matrix in the past was instability in the bridge causing occasional netsplit style behaviour where all the Matrix users would bulk-part and bulk-join. Since stability was fixed earlier this year, it should no longer be a concern. In terms of privacy concerns: yes, Matrix.org is currently provided by a UK legal entity, just as many IRC servers are too. But if you want privacy from a malicious server admin or government or whoever then you should be using end-to-end encryption, and you shouldn't be using IRC. I'm not sure the legal jurisdiction makes much difference (unless the UK outlaws E2E, which then becomes a whole new can of worms). If you're worried about the fact that Matrix rooms contain scrollback, then it's (again) unfortunate that nobody has cared enough about this to file a bug on https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-appservice-irc/issues to request configurable retention per bridge. Meanwhile, https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/447 https://github.com/matrix-org/matrix-doc/issues/447 i s the general spec issue if you'd like to upvote or comment on it. But in the end, Matrix is FOSS, and we kinda hope that folks will contribute stuff like this that we simply haven't got to yet.
- vertex-four 8y ago
  It is, in general, not a concern of IRC users that Matrix is broken past what they need to do to protect themselves from it, and attempting to fob Matrix development off on them is really not on. While I agree that many communications should go over e2e chat, there are a number of low-real-risk channels on IRC that occasionally discuss drugs and similar, and adding the additional risk vector that ten years down the line some prosecutor decides to dig the logs up through Matrix.org when everyone else has long since lost them isn’t really cool. My understanding from last time I went through the codebase is that logs will not be deleted even if all Matrix users leave the room.
  - Arathorn 8y ago
    > attempting to fob Matrix development off on them is really not on. My point is that if you have requirements for a bridge (eg configurable scrollback retention), you should submit a feature req to let us know about it at the time rather than ragequitting and telling people that matrix is broken. Anyway, point taken that we need to make scrollback retention configurable (whether for bridging or in general); have bumped it up the todo list.
floatboth 8y ago
Oh, right, the log "issue". I think it's extremely naive to try to keep an "unlogged" IRC channel, since any user could secretly "leak" the logs.