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"It’s not the first time something like this has happened to me, at all. It’s not the first time it’s happened to me at a tech conference. But it is the first t

"It’s not the first time something like this has happened to me, at all. It’s not the first time it’s happened to me at a tech conference. But it is the first time I’ve spoken out about it in this way, because I’m tired of the sense that some idiot can ruin my day and never have to answer for it." At this risk of everyone taking this the wrong way.... (1) If it's not the first time this has happened, it might be time to re-evaluate the pattern of behavior that led up to the unfortunate event. (2) Never have to answer for it?!!? Um if you're sexually assaulted (multiple times?!?!) you should definitely be reporting that to the POLICE where the offender will, I'm pretty sure, have to answer for it. Right? I totally understand that blogging about this must have been incredibly difficult for this person, and perhaps naming the accused in the post lightens the burden on her a bit... but this should definitely be a police issue, not a blog issue!

cowpewter 16y ago
"If it's not the first time this has happened, it might be time to re-evaluate the pattern of behavior that led up to the unfortunate event." Responses like this are exactly why women don't speak up when these things happen.
- robryan 16y ago
  Yeah, it's not like a large number of guys got the wrong impression here, just the one. If the rest of us can be sensible and respectful why should the outlier force females to act a different way. It's the same as not taking trains because maybe 1 in every 1000 guys late at night cause trouble.
- bradleyjoyce 16y ago
  I'm in no way trying to say it's her fault. But if there is some pattern to the situation perhaps it would be worthwhile to analyze in the hopes that it didn't happen again? It's unfair and unjust that in doing so she might uncover something she could change to help prevent some pervert from doing something atrocious... but if it did prevent it, wouldn't it be worth it? It seems logical to me... but I guess in being logical I'm somehow being sexist or something (which is why my original comment is getting downvoted?)?
  - cowpewter 16y ago
    Yeah, I get that you specifically aren't trying to say it's her fault. It's just that overwhelmingly, when harassment occurs to women, the conversation turns to 'What could she have done differently to make it not happen to her?' and NOT 'What can we do to make it so men don't harass?' If it didn't happen to so many women, so often, then maybe the conversation could go that way. But as you say, let's analyze the pattern. What if the pattern is "Go to tech conferences and socialize in a normal and acceptable manner with other people who share my interests"? What are you going to tell her? Don't go to tech conferences? Don't network with other people in your industry at a bar? Don't talk to a man while drunk? While sober but he is drunk? Don't talk to a man at all? Don't walk down the street at night in a skirt. Don't walk down the street at night at all. Don't leave your house.
    - bradleyjoyce 16y ago
      I wouldn't tell her anything, quite frankly, other than to suggest that SHE analyze the situation and make her own determinations. Going to extremes (don't leave the house) is obviously not a realistic or constructive option.
      - cowpewter 16y ago
        Again, nothing against you specifically. Consider it a generic 'you' and that absurdist reduction is absurd. But unfortunately, it's what a lot of people actually seem to believe, even if they don't state it in so many words.
  - angrycoder 16y ago
    The 'pattern' is that she is a woman. Stuff like this happens to women all the time, regardless of their behavior. Its not the behavior of the women that is at fault, it is the man's.
    - bradleyjoyce 16y ago
      I would think that the pattern is more than just being a woman... but I know what you are trying to say. I'm not saying that her behavior is at fault (100% the man's fault), but I'm suggesting that PERHAPS there is something she could have done differently to avoid what happened, and if so, it would be worthwhile to determine what that possible thing is.
- dkokelley 16y ago
  Devil's advocate: What would you tell a man who walks home at night alone through a shady neighbourhood and got mugged with any frequency (to the point he expects he will be mugged again walking home through the same neighbourhood)? Of course the muggers are 100% responsible for their actions. The man wasn't 'asking to get mugged', and has the right to walk down through that neighbourhood and expect a level of safety. But still, the appropriate suggestion is to recommend a safer behaviour. Applying the analogy to a woman's sexual assault scenario, you would have to look at the various pieces, and how they translate to our model. Was she dressing or behaving promiscuously? Is she going out and partying late at night? Yes, it is her right to dress and behave how she likes, and she should be able to do so safely, but this isn't the world we live in. These actions are the equivalent of walking through the unsafe neighbourhood alone at night in our above model. The goal for society shouldn't be to regulate the woman's behaviour until she avoids all potential dangers. No, it should be to regulate the behaviour of the assaulter - by holding him accountable, and punishing him as necessary. Still, until society changes, it would be prudent for the women to make safer decisions. This is no way is meant to apply directly to the OP's situation. The man made a move - aggressively - she refused, and he assaulted her. I don't know how her behaviour could have changed this. (Allegedly. No need for any Internet justice here.)This is just meant to portray a counter-example. Responses like 'she was asking to be raped/assaulted' are unacceptable IMH. A woman could be walking down the street naked, and if she were raped it would be 100% the rapists fault. Sure it might not be wise for the woman, but the rapist must be held accountable.
  - cowpewter 16y ago
    Understood, and yes people do need moderate their own behavior in order to safeguard their own safety. We don't live in a perfect utopia. It's just that every time a women is assaulted and the first response out of most of the people she tells (including the police! and others who are supposed to be there for her safety!) is "Well what did you do wrong?" it makes women want to not speak up at all.
    - dkokelley 16y ago
      Understandable, and this behaviour needs to be fixed. Then again, the duties, behaviours, and effectiveness of police forces remains a topic for another thread!
tbrownaw 16y ago
> it might be time to re-evaluate the pattern of behavior that led up to the unfortunate event. Standard cost-benefit analysis: how does the number/severity of ruined days compare to the number/awesomeness of fun days (presuming that without that "pattern of behavior" all days would be "meh")? Maybe the rational choice really is to try to change the world...
- bradleyjoyce 16y ago
  hmm that is a very interesting way to put it actually... I wonder what the result would be if the author performed such an analysis. You're definitely right about trying to change the world.
chc 16y ago
What pattern of behavior could have led to this event? I mean that sincerely. I think sometimes women are led to be a little more careless than they should be (not that it's their fault, but it's far better to avoid being a victim than to have someone to blame for victimizing you) — but I don't see how there's anything for her to analyze here. She just walked up to a guy who said he wanted to talk and he shoved his hand down her pants. Like, what's the pattern she needs to analyze there? Talking to men?
paulgb 16y ago
"Never have to answer for it?!!? Um if you're sexually assaulted (multiple times?!?!) you should definitely be reporting that to the POLICE where the offender will, I'm pretty sure, have to answer for it. Right?" Without witnesses, it would be hard to prove that such an event did or did not happen. (Not saying I agree or disagree with her blogging it, but I can sympathize with her doing so in an otherwise powerless situation.)
sp332 16y ago
It's not her, it's him. That is all.
jeremymcanally 16y ago
"If it's not the first time this has happened, it might be time to re-evaluate the pattern of behavior that led up to the unfortunate event." Er seems like the only pattern of behavior (that she's described at least) is that she goes to tech conferences and she fully participates in the happenings there. Are you suggesting she stop? Prodding question, but honestly, we're trying to get more women involved, right? Telling them (basically if not a bit hyperbolically) to quit-being-such-sluts-and-they-won't-get-raped is a bit counter-productive. A woman should be able to participate at tech events in the conference and the after-party just like a man without the fear she'll be groped by the attendees.

cowpewter 16y ago

"If it's not the first time this has happened, it might be time to re-evaluate the pattern of behavior that led up to the unfortunate event." Responses like this are exactly why women don't speak up when these things happen.

robryan 16y ago
Yeah, it's not like a large number of guys got the wrong impression here, just the one. If the rest of us can be sensible and respectful why should the outlier force females to act a different way. It's the same as not taking trains because maybe 1 in every 1000 guys late at night cause trouble.
bradleyjoyce 16y ago
I'm in no way trying to say it's her fault. But if there is some pattern to the situation perhaps it would be worthwhile to analyze in the hopes that it didn't happen again? It's unfair and unjust that in doing so she might uncover something she could change to help prevent some pervert from doing something atrocious... but if it did prevent it, wouldn't it be worth it? It seems logical to me... but I guess in being logical I'm somehow being sexist or something (which is why my original comment is getting downvoted?)?
- cowpewter 16y ago
  Yeah, I get that you specifically aren't trying to say it's her fault. It's just that overwhelmingly, when harassment occurs to women, the conversation turns to 'What could she have done differently to make it not happen to her?' and NOT 'What can we do to make it so men don't harass?' If it didn't happen to so many women, so often, then maybe the conversation could go that way. But as you say, let's analyze the pattern. What if the pattern is "Go to tech conferences and socialize in a normal and acceptable manner with other people who share my interests"? What are you going to tell her? Don't go to tech conferences? Don't network with other people in your industry at a bar? Don't talk to a man while drunk? While sober but he is drunk? Don't talk to a man at all? Don't walk down the street at night in a skirt. Don't walk down the street at night at all. Don't leave your house.
  - bradleyjoyce 16y ago
    I wouldn't tell her anything, quite frankly, other than to suggest that SHE analyze the situation and make her own determinations. Going to extremes (don't leave the house) is obviously not a realistic or constructive option.
    - cowpewter 16y ago
      Again, nothing against you specifically. Consider it a generic 'you' and that absurdist reduction is absurd. But unfortunately, it's what a lot of people actually seem to believe, even if they don't state it in so many words.
- angrycoder 16y ago
  The 'pattern' is that she is a woman. Stuff like this happens to women all the time, regardless of their behavior. Its not the behavior of the women that is at fault, it is the man's.
  - bradleyjoyce 16y ago
    I would think that the pattern is more than just being a woman... but I know what you are trying to say. I'm not saying that her behavior is at fault (100% the man's fault), but I'm suggesting that PERHAPS there is something she could have done differently to avoid what happened, and if so, it would be worthwhile to determine what that possible thing is.
dkokelley 16y ago
Devil's advocate: What would you tell a man who walks home at night alone through a shady neighbourhood and got mugged with any frequency (to the point he expects he will be mugged again walking home through the same neighbourhood)? Of course the muggers are 100% responsible for their actions. The man wasn't 'asking to get mugged', and has the right to walk down through that neighbourhood and expect a level of safety. But still, the appropriate suggestion is to recommend a safer behaviour. Applying the analogy to a woman's sexual assault scenario, you would have to look at the various pieces, and how they translate to our model. Was she dressing or behaving promiscuously? Is she going out and partying late at night? Yes, it is her right to dress and behave how she likes, and she should be able to do so safely, but this isn't the world we live in. These actions are the equivalent of walking through the unsafe neighbourhood alone at night in our above model. The goal for society shouldn't be to regulate the woman's behaviour until she avoids all potential dangers. No, it should be to regulate the behaviour of the assaulter - by holding him accountable, and punishing him as necessary. Still, until society changes, it would be prudent for the women to make safer decisions. This is no way is meant to apply directly to the OP's situation. The man made a move - aggressively - she refused, and he assaulted her. I don't know how her behaviour could have changed this. (Allegedly. No need for any Internet justice here.)This is just meant to portray a counter-example. Responses like 'she was asking to be raped/assaulted' are unacceptable IMH. A woman could be walking down the street naked, and if she were raped it would be 100% the rapists fault. Sure it might not be wise for the woman, but the rapist must be held accountable.
- cowpewter 16y ago
  Understood, and yes people do need moderate their own behavior in order to safeguard their own safety. We don't live in a perfect utopia. It's just that every time a women is assaulted and the first response out of most of the people she tells (including the police! and others who are supposed to be there for her safety!) is "Well what did you do wrong?" it makes women want to not speak up at all.
  - dkokelley 16y ago
    Understandable, and this behaviour needs to be fixed. Then again, the duties, behaviours, and effectiveness of police forces remains a topic for another thread!

tbrownaw 16y ago

> it might be time to re-evaluate the pattern of behavior that led up to the unfortunate event. Standard cost-benefit analysis: how does the number/severity of ruined days compare to the number/awesomeness of fun days (presuming that without that "pattern of behavior" all days would be "meh")? Maybe the rational choice really is to try to change the world...

bradleyjoyce 16y ago
hmm that is a very interesting way to put it actually... I wonder what the result would be if the author performed such an analysis. You're definitely right about trying to change the world.

chc 16y ago

What pattern of behavior could have led to this event? I mean that sincerely. I think sometimes women are led to be a little more careless than they should be (not that it's their fault, but it's far better to avoid being a victim than to have someone to blame for victimizing you) — but I don't see how there's anything for her to analyze here. She just walked up to a guy who said he wanted to talk and he shoved his hand down her pants. Like, what's the pattern she needs to analyze there? Talking to men?

paulgb 16y ago

"Never have to answer for it?!!? Um if you're sexually assaulted (multiple times?!?!) you should definitely be reporting that to the POLICE where the offender will, I'm pretty sure, have to answer for it. Right?" Without witnesses, it would be hard to prove that such an event did or did not happen. (Not saying I agree or disagree with her blogging it, but I can sympathize with her doing so in an otherwise powerless situation.)

sp332 16y ago

It's not her, it's him. That is all.

jeremymcanally 16y ago

"If it's not the first time this has happened, it might be time to re-evaluate the pattern of behavior that led up to the unfortunate event." Er seems like the only pattern of behavior (that she's described at least) is that she goes to tech conferences and she fully participates in the happenings there. Are you suggesting she stop? Prodding question, but honestly, we're trying to get more women involved, right? Telling them (basically if not a bit hyperbolically) to quit-being-such-sluts-and-they-won't-get-raped is a bit counter-productive. A woman should be able to participate at tech events in the conference and the after-party just like a man without the fear she'll be groped by the attendees.