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This is why it's frustrating when some make it seem that Christians are incapable of facing persecution, based entirely on their experiences in the US. The Chr

This is why it's frustrating when some make it seem that Christians are incapable of facing persecution, based entirely on their experiences in the US. The Christians in China are very brave for standing by their faith, and I wish them luck and peace.

abnry 8y ago
Yes, I am gobsmacked by their bravery. And as a Christian myself, I am amazed by how they root their bravery in their faith, and not in some idea of social justice. The lead pastor wrote a letter going into this (published after he was detained): http://www.chinapartnership.org/blog/2018/12/my-declaration-of-faithful-disobedience http://www.chinapartnership.org/blog/2018/12/my-declaration-...
kadendogthing 8y ago
>This is why it's frustrating when some make it seem that Christians are incapable of facing persecution, Literally no one does this. Western Christians are incapable of facing persecution in the current social and economic climate. This is because Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society. It has nothing to do with someone being a Christian else where in the world. The sentiment you are attempting to inaccurately portray is rooted in the fact that you have silly things like the "War on Christmas" and actual citizens (who are Christians) complaining that obeying the constitution and not imposing their religion on others is somehow equivalent to persecution. Your conflation of the two is your own error, not others.
- ghobs91 8y ago
  I agree with you that the "war on Christmas" stuff is nonsense, but you'd be surprised at how many people write off Christian persecution, based solely on the fact that some of the most powerful nations in the world are "Christian nations".
  - kadendogthing 8y ago
    I think you think people hold such opinions, not that they actually do. It's a really contrived point that comes up in these types of conversations. Feel free to link any kind of substantial material backing up the frequency of such opinions.
    - dvtrn 8y ago
      The lack of awareness on display right now is astounding and borderline offensive, people just don't hold the "opinion" that Christians are persecuted around the world, they are pointing to actual current events of Christian persecution. https://www.wsj.com/articles/egyptian-church-hit-by-bomb-blast-1491727099 https://www.wsj.com/articles/egyptian-church-hit-by-bomb-bla... https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/29-coptic-christians-murdered-on-route-to-a-monastery_us_592c632de4b0a7b7b469cc6d https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/29-coptic-christians-mu... https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/06/18/mosuls-christians-say-goodbye/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/06/18/mosuls-christians-say-g... http://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/10032018 http://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/10032018
      - kadendogthing 8y ago
        You have significantly misunderstood the context of the conversation. No one has said that Christians aren't persecuted around the world. No one has even implied this was the case. Because people don't hold such opinions. He is implying that people hold these opinions. I am asking for some kind of substantial material validating the frequency of such opinions. It helps to respond to the actual conversation instead of contrived strawmans. You are very much proving my point. +1 For self-awareness, it would have saved you writing out that post.
        dvtrn 8y ago
        I am asking for some kind of substantial material validating the frequency of such opinions. What are the odds that I could go to ten different blogs from ten different Joe's from across the internet saying how bad it is for Christians in the world, come back here, link them, that you'll backpedal more to say that the sources provided aren't authoritative enough?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- throwaway7312 8y ago
  > Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society ... except Hollywood, academia, Silicon Valley, Wall Street, K Street, much of the publishing industry, and the mainstream media. Fixed that for you. And Merry Christmas!
  - kadendogthing 8y ago
    Pretty sure they're in all of those. I'd say Merry Christmas back, but you said it in bad faith, and I really don't appreciate that. You really ought to be ashamed.
  - chillacy 8y ago
    I’m not even religious but I recognize that Christian values basically underlie all of western culture, down to a belief in human rights and humanism itself.
  - geofft 8y ago
    Wall Street is the first place I've worked that takes Good Friday off. If you're in town, come by Trinity (which is literally at the end of Wall Street) to see how packed it is on Christmas or Easter. Or even on a weekday—does your church have three attended services every day?
- whatshisface 8y ago
  >Western Christians are incapable of facing persecution in the current social and economic climate. This is because Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society. This belies a grave misunderstanding of how human societies actually work. It doesn't matter how many of your team are out there in the world when you are one team blue in a room full of twenty team red. If a team has at least two members, then even in a society of billions it is possible for them to be the majority sometimes.
  - kadendogthing 8y ago
    >It doesn't matter how many of your team are out there in the world when you are one team blue in a room full of twenty team red. I mean if you're going to just go "big number greater than smaller number" and attribute that to a deep understanding of human societies and general political power structures how on earth are you going to explain the current geopolitical situation as it stands today? That's incredibly daft, and your attempt at labeling it as "grave misunderstanding of how human societies actually work" is absurd.
- kadendogthing 8y ago
  I love how "milktoast" you can see HN being right now. A bluntly factual statement gets flagged on HN. Can't imagine how the demographics of the "hacker" forum played into this.
coliveira 8y ago
Christians persecute Muslins. Muslins persecute Christians. Buddhists persecute Muslins. Christians persecute Jews. Muslins persecute Hinduism. It is not a Christian thing, it is a religion tradition all over the world to persecute other religions. Christians have done this for millennia and sometimes they are victims themselves. I think the solution is to stop with the craziness altogether.
- Farradfahren 8y ago
  Maybe in a perfect society, we could get all these religions to form a persecution ring, where every religious group can persecute on other and get persecuted by one another. A perfect stable balance of victimness and evilness. Imagine what happens with blame and crazyness, like for example from the social justice cult, when you put them into such a accelerator.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  Persecution of minorities is a human psychological reflex shared by all living human beings. If you got rid of religious differences you would just end up with more energy going in to race, political teams, and whatever else.
  - kadendogthing 8y ago
    That's actually not true, since we're able to see these types of societies in the present timeline and none of what you just described exists in any appreciable, sufficient manner. In fact we see the exact opposite, to the point where right leaning citizens tend to besmirch the pro social practices of the government. It's amazing that these types of unexceptionally wrong perspectives, especially whimsical bio-truths, continually get posted on this forum.
- rohit2412 8y ago
  When Buddhists persecute Muslims in Myanmar, it isn't because Buddha told them to do so. But when Muslims persecute yazidis, it is because Mohammed did so, and Quran has verses allowing it. To stop with the craziness, one should look at what motivates and incentivizes the craziness. And it turns out some religions are crazier than the others.
nkozyra 8y ago
I think that may be largely filtered through us audiences. Of course Christians can be persecuted. Any minority is likely to face some level of persecution. But in the US, it is so commonplace, so entrained in our society that it's hard to take the persecution claim seriously, particularly when weilded in response to things like bakers and their cake businesses. In fact, that's an example of American ideals working as applied to government action. In an otherwise zero sum game it seeks to shield the minority at the expense of the majority.
grumpydba 8y ago
Christians are literally the most persecuted on earth. This is a known fact.

abnry 8y ago

Yes, I am gobsmacked by their bravery. And as a Christian myself, I am amazed by how they root their bravery in their faith, and not in some idea of social justice. The lead pastor wrote a letter going into this (published after he was detained): http://www.chinapartnership.org/blog/2018/12/my-declaration-of-faithful-disobedience http://www.chinapartnership.org/blog/2018/12/my-declaration-...

kadendogthing 8y ago

>This is why it's frustrating when some make it seem that Christians are incapable of facing persecution, Literally no one does this. Western Christians are incapable of facing persecution in the current social and economic climate. This is because Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society. It has nothing to do with someone being a Christian else where in the world. The sentiment you are attempting to inaccurately portray is rooted in the fact that you have silly things like the "War on Christmas" and actual citizens (who are Christians) complaining that obeying the constitution and not imposing their religion on others is somehow equivalent to persecution. Your conflation of the two is your own error, not others.

ghobs91 8y ago
I agree with you that the "war on Christmas" stuff is nonsense, but you'd be surprised at how many people write off Christian persecution, based solely on the fact that some of the most powerful nations in the world are "Christian nations".
- kadendogthing 8y ago
  I think you think people hold such opinions, not that they actually do. It's a really contrived point that comes up in these types of conversations. Feel free to link any kind of substantial material backing up the frequency of such opinions.
  - dvtrn 8y ago
    The lack of awareness on display right now is astounding and borderline offensive, people just don't hold the "opinion" that Christians are persecuted around the world, they are pointing to actual current events of Christian persecution. https://www.wsj.com/articles/egyptian-church-hit-by-bomb-blast-1491727099 https://www.wsj.com/articles/egyptian-church-hit-by-bomb-bla... https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/29-coptic-christians-murdered-on-route-to-a-monastery_us_592c632de4b0a7b7b469cc6d https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/29-coptic-christians-mu... https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/06/18/mosuls-christians-say-goodbye/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/06/18/mosuls-christians-say-g... http://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/10032018 http://www.rudaw.net/english/middleeast/iraq/10032018
    - kadendogthing 8y ago
      You have significantly misunderstood the context of the conversation. No one has said that Christians aren't persecuted around the world. No one has even implied this was the case. Because people don't hold such opinions. He is implying that people hold these opinions. I am asking for some kind of substantial material validating the frequency of such opinions. It helps to respond to the actual conversation instead of contrived strawmans. You are very much proving my point. +1 For self-awareness, it would have saved you writing out that post.
      - dvtrn 8y ago
        I am asking for some kind of substantial material validating the frequency of such opinions. What are the odds that I could go to ten different blogs from ten different Joe's from across the internet saying how bad it is for Christians in the world, come back here, link them, that you'll backpedal more to say that the sources provided aren't authoritative enough?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
throwaway7312 8y ago
> Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society ... except Hollywood, academia, Silicon Valley, Wall Street, K Street, much of the publishing industry, and the mainstream media. Fixed that for you. And Merry Christmas!
- kadendogthing 8y ago
  Pretty sure they're in all of those. I'd say Merry Christmas back, but you said it in bad faith, and I really don't appreciate that. You really ought to be ashamed.
- chillacy 8y ago
  I’m not even religious but I recognize that Christian values basically underlie all of western culture, down to a belief in human rights and humanism itself.
- geofft 8y ago
  Wall Street is the first place I've worked that takes Good Friday off. If you're in town, come by Trinity (which is literally at the end of Wall Street) to see how packed it is on Christmas or Easter. Or even on a weekday—does your church have three attended services every day?
whatshisface 8y ago
>Western Christians are incapable of facing persecution in the current social and economic climate. This is because Christians by and large make up every pillar of Western society. This belies a grave misunderstanding of how human societies actually work. It doesn't matter how many of your team are out there in the world when you are one team blue in a room full of twenty team red. If a team has at least two members, then even in a society of billions it is possible for them to be the majority sometimes.
- kadendogthing 8y ago
  >It doesn't matter how many of your team are out there in the world when you are one team blue in a room full of twenty team red. I mean if you're going to just go "big number greater than smaller number" and attribute that to a deep understanding of human societies and general political power structures how on earth are you going to explain the current geopolitical situation as it stands today? That's incredibly daft, and your attempt at labeling it as "grave misunderstanding of how human societies actually work" is absurd.
kadendogthing 8y ago
I love how "milktoast" you can see HN being right now. A bluntly factual statement gets flagged on HN. Can't imagine how the demographics of the "hacker" forum played into this.

coliveira 8y ago

Christians persecute Muslins. Muslins persecute Christians. Buddhists persecute Muslins. Christians persecute Jews. Muslins persecute Hinduism. It is not a Christian thing, it is a religion tradition all over the world to persecute other religions. Christians have done this for millennia and sometimes they are victims themselves. I think the solution is to stop with the craziness altogether.

Farradfahren 8y ago
Maybe in a perfect society, we could get all these religions to form a persecution ring, where every religious group can persecute on other and get persecuted by one another. A perfect stable balance of victimness and evilness. Imagine what happens with blame and crazyness, like for example from the social justice cult, when you put them into such a accelerator.
whatshisface 8y ago
Persecution of minorities is a human psychological reflex shared by all living human beings. If you got rid of religious differences you would just end up with more energy going in to race, political teams, and whatever else.
- kadendogthing 8y ago
  That's actually not true, since we're able to see these types of societies in the present timeline and none of what you just described exists in any appreciable, sufficient manner. In fact we see the exact opposite, to the point where right leaning citizens tend to besmirch the pro social practices of the government. It's amazing that these types of unexceptionally wrong perspectives, especially whimsical bio-truths, continually get posted on this forum.
rohit2412 8y ago
When Buddhists persecute Muslims in Myanmar, it isn't because Buddha told them to do so. But when Muslims persecute yazidis, it is because Mohammed did so, and Quran has verses allowing it. To stop with the craziness, one should look at what motivates and incentivizes the craziness. And it turns out some religions are crazier than the others.

nkozyra 8y ago

I think that may be largely filtered through us audiences. Of course Christians can be persecuted. Any minority is likely to face some level of persecution. But in the US, it is so commonplace, so entrained in our society that it's hard to take the persecution claim seriously, particularly when weilded in response to things like bakers and their cake businesses. In fact, that's an example of American ideals working as applied to government action. In an otherwise zero sum game it seeks to shield the minority at the expense of the majority.

grumpydba 8y ago

Christians are literally the most persecuted on earth. This is a known fact.