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Patreon is very likely on mandatory US Holiday today. By the time they read this thread on Wednesday, it will be far too late for them to fend off the mob. They

Patreon is very likely on mandatory US Holiday today. By the time they read this thread on Wednesday, it will be far too late for them to fend off the mob. They deserve one business day to reply, and they won't have had that until Wednesday at the _earliest_. Be kind. EDIT: If your reply is "they should reply 24/7/365", ask yourself whether it makes financial sense to staff a support team on Christmas at triple-overtime pay; notice that essentially all US businesses do not staff support on Christmas; and then reconsider your reply.

zorpner 8y ago
If they are suspending accounts over the holidays, they need to have remediation available over the holidays. I'm fine being unkind to those taking away people's livelihoods over Christmas without notice or recourse.
- mcphage 8y ago
  They suspended it at some point several weeks ago. That’s part of the problem—since they never notified him, he’s not entirely sure when it happened. He just has a window based on payments.
tokyodude 8y ago
I get your point that most businesses are closed but I didn't know it was mandatory or required triple pay. Is that true? Disneyland is open on Christmas. Most movie theaters are open on Christmas. I think most convenience stores, many groceries stores, and most gas stations are open on Christmas.
- StudentStuff 8y ago
  It seems OP also missed this gem: > This suspension came between 18 and 47 days ago based on my missed payouts. No review has taken place in that time... Patreon has had weeks to do this review, yet they haven't communicated or done anything.
  - mirimir 8y ago
    True. But he just tweeted today, and it quickly hit HN front page.
    - georgemcbay 8y ago
      I agree with your basic point about not grabbing the pitchforks out just yet, but wouldn't it be nice if online businesses had to be accountable in a reasonable timeframe to all of their customers (especially when it comes to handling money that is due to the customer) and not just people who happen to have large twitter followings?
      - mirimir 8y ago
        Well, I actually would expect someone to be checking Twitter and HN ;) But maybe they've given up paying attention, given the other stuff going on. Or maybe overwhelmed and frustrated.
  - floatingatoll 8y ago
    Yep, I didn’t have that piece of information handy from the post’s link, sorry :(
- thaumasiotes 8y ago
  > I get your point that most businesses are closed but I didn't know it was mandatory or required triple pay. Is that true? No, neither of those things is true. Triple pay would be very odd under any circumstances.
  - lotsofpulp 8y ago
    It’s really amazing to me how many people can’t be bothered to spend 5 min on learning the basics of their country’s labor laws.
    - floatingatoll 8y ago
      Indeed! > The holiday premium for time worked on the six named holidays shall be paid at three times (3X) the straight time rate of pay. https://ufcw324.org/holiday-pay-and-holiday-week-overtime-food-division/ https://ufcw324.org/holiday-pay-and-holiday-week-overtime-fo...
      - dragonwriter 8y ago
        That's a specific union contract requirement from the involved union local’s website, not general labor law.
        floatingatoll 8y ago
        If you don’t consider union contracts as part of labor law, you’re in for a world of surprise when you encounter your first unionized workforce.
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        Adhering to whatever union contract is applicable is a requirement of labor law, but the contents of a particular union contract don't establish a claim about what is required under generally-applicable labor law.
  - 8y ago
mirimir 8y ago
I worked in the analytical lab at a chemical plant for a while. And I always worked Christmas, for the massive overtime. And isn't this sort of a toxics issue for Patreon?
whiddershins 8y ago
There is no such thing as a mandatory US holiday.
PavlovsCat 8y ago
> ask yourself whether it makes financial sense ... to ban people just before you go on holiday, you mean? Where's the kindness in that? How about a business day of fair warning and letting a person react before you ban them as a Christmas present? Why be "kind" to companies that never really own their shit, are ultimately not accountable at all, who offer weasel words to add some insult to injury? That's the track record. I made my mind up based on other things, anyway: We need payment processors and platforms using them that ONLY respect the law. Not even accepting user reports, maybe with a button to let users report things to the local police. Not anonymously of course, so said police can deal with repeated nonsensical complaints like they would if you abuse calling 911, how about that? Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and from what I can tell, the problem is anonymous reports. Let's get some "right to face your accuser" in there, on top of the accuser having to go to the police in the first place, and I bet you, 99.9% of it would clear up right then and there. Patreon doesn't want that, so what else is there for them to say? Let them change or let us make and flock to platforms that respect us, period. And let us support those who discern more carefully what systems and companies to use and normalize, and what lines to draw. If that means I have to accept that my neighbour on such a platform might be a racist, as long as they don't do anything illegal, just as something what they are, a bias they have, then I can live with that. Just like I can live in a big city, without freaking out all the time. What a crazy concept. I don't want to convince the people who can't fathom it, I want to build things with those who can. I'm sick to have dozens of landlord who mostly are little children that don't speak English but just string words together without meaning, and only respond to the guttural sounds of groups of other children. Would you go to a supermarket where the cashier can simply deny some items to some customers, on a case-by-case basis, based on other customers booing and blocking the transaction -- instead of security and nobody else dealing with those who try to interfere? It's time for the web to grow up. Being oh so different isn't any good when it means regression. I was actually planning to go on Patreon soon-ish, but after seeing the Matt Christiansen video about the PR rep phone call, I'm seriously re-considering that. That is, I'll have to come up with other stuff, and then at most go on Patreon as a bonus, an afterthought, that's for sure. There's nothing to reconsider. They can still change, they can do that any day. But until that happens, there's just 3 reason to be on Patreon: 1.) not having found an alternative 2.) not being aware 3.) being okay with others getting censored nilly-willy, and lending power to mobs Move people who are at #2 to #1, and don't waste time and money on those who stick with #3.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Patreon is very likely on mandatory US Holiday today The US doesn't have mandatory holidays, and neither do most, if any, US states. > ask yourself whether it makes financial sense to staff a support team on Christmas at triple-overtime pay Except for a very small fraction of union jobs, triple-overtime for holiday work isn't a thing in the US.

zorpner 8y ago

If they are suspending accounts over the holidays, they need to have remediation available over the holidays. I'm fine being unkind to those taking away people's livelihoods over Christmas without notice or recourse.

mcphage 8y ago
They suspended it at some point several weeks ago. That’s part of the problem—since they never notified him, he’s not entirely sure when it happened. He just has a window based on payments.

tokyodude 8y ago

I get your point that most businesses are closed but I didn't know it was mandatory or required triple pay. Is that true? Disneyland is open on Christmas. Most movie theaters are open on Christmas. I think most convenience stores, many groceries stores, and most gas stations are open on Christmas.

StudentStuff 8y ago
It seems OP also missed this gem: > This suspension came between 18 and 47 days ago based on my missed payouts. No review has taken place in that time... Patreon has had weeks to do this review, yet they haven't communicated or done anything.
- mirimir 8y ago
  True. But he just tweeted today, and it quickly hit HN front page.
  - georgemcbay 8y ago
    I agree with your basic point about not grabbing the pitchforks out just yet, but wouldn't it be nice if online businesses had to be accountable in a reasonable timeframe to all of their customers (especially when it comes to handling money that is due to the customer) and not just people who happen to have large twitter followings?
    - mirimir 8y ago
      Well, I actually would expect someone to be checking Twitter and HN ;) But maybe they've given up paying attention, given the other stuff going on. Or maybe overwhelmed and frustrated.
- floatingatoll 8y ago
  Yep, I didn’t have that piece of information handy from the post’s link, sorry :(
thaumasiotes 8y ago
> I get your point that most businesses are closed but I didn't know it was mandatory or required triple pay. Is that true? No, neither of those things is true. Triple pay would be very odd under any circumstances.
- lotsofpulp 8y ago
  It’s really amazing to me how many people can’t be bothered to spend 5 min on learning the basics of their country’s labor laws.
  - floatingatoll 8y ago
    Indeed! > The holiday premium for time worked on the six named holidays shall be paid at three times (3X) the straight time rate of pay. https://ufcw324.org/holiday-pay-and-holiday-week-overtime-food-division/ https://ufcw324.org/holiday-pay-and-holiday-week-overtime-fo...
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      That's a specific union contract requirement from the involved union local’s website, not general labor law.
      - floatingatoll 8y ago
        If you don’t consider union contracts as part of labor law, you’re in for a world of surprise when you encounter your first unionized workforce.
        dragonwriter 8y ago
        Adhering to whatever union contract is applicable is a requirement of labor law, but the contents of a particular union contract don't establish a claim about what is required under generally-applicable labor law.
- 8y ago

mirimir 8y ago

I worked in the analytical lab at a chemical plant for a while. And I always worked Christmas, for the massive overtime. And isn't this sort of a toxics issue for Patreon?

whiddershins 8y ago

There is no such thing as a mandatory US holiday.

PavlovsCat 8y ago

> ask yourself whether it makes financial sense ... to ban people just before you go on holiday, you mean? Where's the kindness in that? How about a business day of fair warning and letting a person react before you ban them as a Christmas present? Why be "kind" to companies that never really own their shit, are ultimately not accountable at all, who offer weasel words to add some insult to injury? That's the track record. I made my mind up based on other things, anyway: We need payment processors and platforms using them that ONLY respect the law. Not even accepting user reports, maybe with a button to let users report things to the local police. Not anonymously of course, so said police can deal with repeated nonsensical complaints like they would if you abuse calling 911, how about that? Sunlight is the best disinfectant, and from what I can tell, the problem is anonymous reports. Let's get some "right to face your accuser" in there, on top of the accuser having to go to the police in the first place, and I bet you, 99.9% of it would clear up right then and there. Patreon doesn't want that, so what else is there for them to say? Let them change or let us make and flock to platforms that respect us, period. And let us support those who discern more carefully what systems and companies to use and normalize, and what lines to draw. If that means I have to accept that my neighbour on such a platform might be a racist, as long as they don't do anything illegal, just as something what they are, a bias they have, then I can live with that. Just like I can live in a big city, without freaking out all the time. What a crazy concept. I don't want to convince the people who can't fathom it, I want to build things with those who can. I'm sick to have dozens of landlord who mostly are little children that don't speak English but just string words together without meaning, and only respond to the guttural sounds of groups of other children. Would you go to a supermarket where the cashier can simply deny some items to some customers, on a case-by-case basis, based on other customers booing and blocking the transaction -- instead of security and nobody else dealing with those who try to interfere? It's time for the web to grow up. Being oh so different isn't any good when it means regression. I was actually planning to go on Patreon soon-ish, but after seeing the Matt Christiansen video about the PR rep phone call, I'm seriously re-considering that. That is, I'll have to come up with other stuff, and then at most go on Patreon as a bonus, an afterthought, that's for sure. There's nothing to reconsider. They can still change, they can do that any day. But until that happens, there's just 3 reason to be on Patreon: 1.) not having found an alternative 2.) not being aware 3.) being okay with others getting censored nilly-willy, and lending power to mobs Move people who are at #2 to #1, and don't waste time and money on those who stick with #3.

dragonwriter 8y ago

> Patreon is very likely on mandatory US Holiday today The US doesn't have mandatory holidays, and neither do most, if any, US states. > ask yourself whether it makes financial sense to staff a support team on Christmas at triple-overtime pay Except for a very small fraction of union jobs, triple-overtime for holiday work isn't a thing in the US.