8 ms·

>Patreon sounds like something relatively easy to replicate. I think the real problem is upstream: The payment processors. These companies set the rules and e

by M2Ys4U 8y ago

>Patreon sounds like something relatively easy to replicate. I think the real problem is upstream: The payment processors. These companies set the rules and everybody else has to play along or risk being cut off from customers. Any competitor will face the same issues sooner or later.

smitty1110 8y ago
> I think the real problem is upstream: The payment processors. In this case, the problem is Patreon itself. They aren't paying out to the creator, and apparently people are still being billed.
- M2Ys4U 8y ago
  Yeah, in this case Patreon is clearly at fault for not notifying Scott about his account's status.
xrd 8y ago
Not if it uses cryptocurrency, right? The middleman disappears in that case.
- Qworg 8y ago
  The middleman just becomes the exchanges (who also have to deal with payment processors).
  - jononor 8y ago
    There are many exchanges though, and their brand is not associated with how people spend the crypto/money received. And assuming that people don't hold money in online wallets, they can freeze the asset either. So quite different from the Mastercard and Patreon case.
  - xrd 8y ago
    Respectfully, I totally disagree. First, many exchanges (at least in the US) allow you to purchase with bank transfer, not a credit card. That completely changes the context of the risk profile. Credit card companies are much more concerned about fraud since CC's are so much easier to perpetrate fraudulent transactions. Its relevant for any kind of "riskier" transaction, like those on something like Patreon. More importantly, once you have purchased cryptocurrency, you can easily transfer to a wallet which you control. Install MetaMask, then move currency to your new wallet on your Mac/Windows/PC. If you keep everything in Coinbase, you are right you are subject to their rules when you attempt to transfer money. If you keep funds in your own wallet, you are 100% free to transfer money to ANYONE without restriction. This is what people mean when they say "decentralization."
    - smsm42 8y ago
      You are free to transfer bitcoins to anyone, maybe (provided you don't lose your wallet). But once you want to convert BTC to USD, you'd still have to play by the rules set by the banking system. Maybe you could slip under the radar if you deal with small amounts, but once it is serious, there would be checks you'd have to pass.
      - xrd 8y ago
        That's a really good point, agreed. It seems like, however, you will be more subject to taxation issues (Coinbase is likely going to report big transactions to the government) than to arbitrary evaluations (that lead to frozen accounts) made by payment processors. Put another way, I think it will be relatively easy to do something like Patreon in cryptocurrency. Ingress will be simple. Converting that into a fiat currency will be hard, as you say. But, if all of sudden I can start taking trips to Thailand and only need USD to buy the ticket, but can do everything else with crypto, then it will matter a lot less. And, this comment made me think that's more and more possible: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18530642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18530642
        smsm42 8y ago
        > It seems like, however, you will be more subject to taxation issues (Coinbase is likely going to report big transactions to the government) than to arbitrary evaluations (that lead to frozen accounts) made by payment processors. Definitely both. Banks have tons of "know your client" requirements. And in most cases, you wouldn't be large enough client so they'd bother to even call you before freezing your account on slightest suspicion.
beezischillin 8y ago
MasterCard's publicly said they're going to exercise corporate censorship over people they disagree with. So many levels on which a platform can be hurt on, unfortunately.

by M2Ys4U 8y ago

smitty1110 8y ago

> I think the real problem is upstream: The payment processors. In this case, the problem is Patreon itself. They aren't paying out to the creator, and apparently people are still being billed.

M2Ys4U 8y ago
Yeah, in this case Patreon is clearly at fault for not notifying Scott about his account's status.

xrd 8y ago

Not if it uses cryptocurrency, right? The middleman disappears in that case.

Qworg 8y ago
The middleman just becomes the exchanges (who also have to deal with payment processors).
- jononor 8y ago
  There are many exchanges though, and their brand is not associated with how people spend the crypto/money received. And assuming that people don't hold money in online wallets, they can freeze the asset either. So quite different from the Mastercard and Patreon case.
- xrd 8y ago
  Respectfully, I totally disagree. First, many exchanges (at least in the US) allow you to purchase with bank transfer, not a credit card. That completely changes the context of the risk profile. Credit card companies are much more concerned about fraud since CC's are so much easier to perpetrate fraudulent transactions. Its relevant for any kind of "riskier" transaction, like those on something like Patreon. More importantly, once you have purchased cryptocurrency, you can easily transfer to a wallet which you control. Install MetaMask, then move currency to your new wallet on your Mac/Windows/PC. If you keep everything in Coinbase, you are right you are subject to their rules when you attempt to transfer money. If you keep funds in your own wallet, you are 100% free to transfer money to ANYONE without restriction. This is what people mean when they say "decentralization."
  - smsm42 8y ago
    You are free to transfer bitcoins to anyone, maybe (provided you don't lose your wallet). But once you want to convert BTC to USD, you'd still have to play by the rules set by the banking system. Maybe you could slip under the radar if you deal with small amounts, but once it is serious, there would be checks you'd have to pass.
    - xrd 8y ago
      That's a really good point, agreed. It seems like, however, you will be more subject to taxation issues (Coinbase is likely going to report big transactions to the government) than to arbitrary evaluations (that lead to frozen accounts) made by payment processors. Put another way, I think it will be relatively easy to do something like Patreon in cryptocurrency. Ingress will be simple. Converting that into a fiat currency will be hard, as you say. But, if all of sudden I can start taking trips to Thailand and only need USD to buy the ticket, but can do everything else with crypto, then it will matter a lot less. And, this comment made me think that's more and more possible: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18530642 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18530642
      - smsm42 8y ago
        > It seems like, however, you will be more subject to taxation issues (Coinbase is likely going to report big transactions to the government) than to arbitrary evaluations (that lead to frozen accounts) made by payment processors. Definitely both. Banks have tons of "know your client" requirements. And in most cases, you wouldn't be large enough client so they'd bother to even call you before freezing your account on slightest suspicion.

beezischillin 8y ago

MasterCard's publicly said they're going to exercise corporate censorship over people they disagree with. So many levels on which a platform can be hurt on, unfortunately.