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> I've witnessed it repeatedly, and I have never seen it succeed in convincing those witnessing it to adopt the view of the person doing the mocking. Nor has it

by zorga 8y ago

> I've witnessed it repeatedly, and I have never seen it succeed in convincing those witnessing it to adopt the view of the person doing the mocking. Nor has it succeeded in leaving a positive impression on me when I have witnessed it. You are in a bubble of like minded people, your anecdotal experience does not apply to all people. > The only kinds of people that react positively to witnessing mockery are the types of people that political movements would do their best to avoid: people that take pleasure in witnessing the denigration of others. That's well near half or so of the voting base; try and step outside your own limited experience, everyone isn't you. Trump supporters for example very much respond to mockery, they liked that Trump mocked the other republican candidates in the primary and were swayed to vote for him based on what appeared in their eyes to be a strong performance in the debates with his peers. Frankly, you're giving people too much credit and failing to recognize that much of the population isn't very mature. Of course it's childish, that doesn't mean it doesn't work. You don't live in a country full of mature adults.

manfredo 8y ago
> You are in a bubble of like minded people, your anecdotal experience does not apply to all people. Ask yourself this: Have you ever been on the fence about an issue, but upon seeing that one side heavily mocked the other you decided to side with the former? So far in this thread: * I have repeatedly stated that I have not witnessed this. * I asked you if you have ever experienced this, but you have not provided a response. If this is a bubble, then it seems like we're both in it. Or, perhaps more likely, this judgement is incorrect. > Trump supporters for example very much respond to mockery, they liked that Trump mocked the other republican candidates in the primary and were swayed to vote for him based on what appeared in their eyes to be a strong performance in the debates with his peers. Yes, but the only people who responded positively to this are were other Republicans. In the grand scheme of things, Trump has been a disaster for the Republican party. They managed to secure the presidency, but as an immense cost in terms of Republican reputation. They have become so unpopular that they lost the house in the midterm election, something that rarely occurs given Republican advantage in the midterms. And the reason why is largely because of what I described: people look at Trump's mockery and general behavior and find it difficult to associate themselves with what the party has become. Plenty of high profile Republicans have become alienated from the party. If we actually think critically about US politics in the last 3 years, the Trump campaign and presidency actually supports my conclusion about the lack of efficacy of mocking behavior: Trump's mockery rallied the subset of Republicans that support his behavior, but alienated those that did not, and stimulated Democrat opposition on top of that.
- zorga 8y ago
  Have you never seen a comedian, George Carlin perhaps: a professional mocker? Yes, he's changed people's minds. You're wrong, we're done, you're just repeating yourself and denying what you haven't seen while ignoring that others have. You have a closed mind. And yes I've seen mockery turn people around and frankly I think anyone's that intellectually honest with themselves will admit they have as well if they sat and thought about it enough.
  - manfredo 8y ago
    I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the average person that brags about mocking people they think don't belong in society doesn't have the same charisma as a professional comedian. Not to mention those two situations are extremely different: Carlin performs to audiences that voluntarily attend his events. It's also worthwhile that despite your repeated insistence that mockery is a functional persuasive strategy, and despite my repeated asking, you still have yet to provide an example of this playing out successfully. This speaks for itself. The only thing approaching an example is referring to the Trump presidency, but as I pointed out this is just as much an example backfiring, if not moreso.
  - dang 8y ago
    Crossing into incivility and personal attack is not ok on HN, regardless of how wrong someone else is or seems, and we ban accounts that do it. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site to heart when posting here? You might also find these other links helpful for getting a clearer idea of that spirit: https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html
    - zorga 8y ago
      I didn't attack anyone, what a preposterous accusation. I was perfectly civil, you're wrong dang.

by zorga 8y ago

manfredo 8y ago

> You are in a bubble of like minded people, your anecdotal experience does not apply to all people. Ask yourself this: Have you ever been on the fence about an issue, but upon seeing that one side heavily mocked the other you decided to side with the former? So far in this thread: * I have repeatedly stated that I have not witnessed this. * I asked you if you have ever experienced this, but you have not provided a response. If this is a bubble, then it seems like we're both in it. Or, perhaps more likely, this judgement is incorrect. > Trump supporters for example very much respond to mockery, they liked that Trump mocked the other republican candidates in the primary and were swayed to vote for him based on what appeared in their eyes to be a strong performance in the debates with his peers. Yes, but the only people who responded positively to this are were other Republicans. In the grand scheme of things, Trump has been a disaster for the Republican party. They managed to secure the presidency, but as an immense cost in terms of Republican reputation. They have become so unpopular that they lost the house in the midterm election, something that rarely occurs given Republican advantage in the midterms. And the reason why is largely because of what I described: people look at Trump's mockery and general behavior and find it difficult to associate themselves with what the party has become. Plenty of high profile Republicans have become alienated from the party. If we actually think critically about US politics in the last 3 years, the Trump campaign and presidency actually supports my conclusion about the lack of efficacy of mocking behavior: Trump's mockery rallied the subset of Republicans that support his behavior, but alienated those that did not, and stimulated Democrat opposition on top of that.

zorga 8y ago
Have you never seen a comedian, George Carlin perhaps: a professional mocker? Yes, he's changed people's minds. You're wrong, we're done, you're just repeating yourself and denying what you haven't seen while ignoring that others have. You have a closed mind. And yes I've seen mockery turn people around and frankly I think anyone's that intellectually honest with themselves will admit they have as well if they sat and thought about it enough.
- manfredo 8y ago
  I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the average person that brags about mocking people they think don't belong in society doesn't have the same charisma as a professional comedian. Not to mention those two situations are extremely different: Carlin performs to audiences that voluntarily attend his events. It's also worthwhile that despite your repeated insistence that mockery is a functional persuasive strategy, and despite my repeated asking, you still have yet to provide an example of this playing out successfully. This speaks for itself. The only thing approaching an example is referring to the Trump presidency, but as I pointed out this is just as much an example backfiring, if not moreso.
- dang 8y ago
  Crossing into incivility and personal attack is not ok on HN, regardless of how wrong someone else is or seems, and we ban accounts that do it. Would you please review https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and take the spirit of this site to heart when posting here? You might also find these other links helpful for getting a clearer idea of that spirit: https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html https://news.ycombinator.com/hackernews.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html http://www.paulgraham.com/hackernews.html http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html http://www.paulgraham.com/trolls.html
  - zorga 8y ago
    I didn't attack anyone, what a preposterous accusation. I was perfectly civil, you're wrong dang.