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I'd much rather schools switched mostly to pen and paper, TBH. 95% of homework in the 9th grade SHOULD NOT require a computer. It's a distraction, and one which

by m0zg 8y ago

I'd much rather schools switched mostly to pen and paper, TBH. 95% of homework in the 9th grade SHOULD NOT require a computer. It's a distraction, and one which hits kids on the ADHD spectrum especially hard. There's nothing to be gained from requiring computers for homework in most cases, and kids get plenty of computer time outside of school. The net effect of this "progress" is that I have to constantly supervise my 15 year old like a hawk, or else no homework will get done and he will watch Youtube instead. This is not a good set-up, because eventually there will be no supervision, and then he will be well and truly fucked, because he can't seem to realize that he needs to actually care about anything other than YT and computer games. I'm afraid that by the time he realizes that it'll be too late to fix anything.

guidedlight 8y ago
In Australia, it’s mostly the government run schools that heavily promote laptops and tablets in the classrooms. Private run schools are increasingly going back to pen and paper under pressure from parents who work in corporate jobs, and see an overreliance on computers as a disadvantage.
- m0zg 8y ago
  Overreliance isn't quite the word. It's as if someone told them they "have" to do it, and they're happy to oblige. I have a feeling (unsubstantiated) that nobody has seriously studied whether screens are advantageous in the classroom. My anecdata suggests they are strongly detrimental, especially in middle school.
Wowfunhappy 8y ago
If I hadn't been allowed to take notes on a computer in school--or if I'd been born a few decades earlier and computers weren't available--I literally don't think I would be where I am today. As in, my grades would have been worse, I would have gotten into a lesser college, etc. My handwriting is slow and difficult to decipher. And handwriting makes tiny revisions—adding words into the middle of a sentence, restructuring a sentence slightly, etc—unduly annoying. If the internet is a problem, disable the internet. I should mention, I actually didn't start using a normal laptop until college. In grade school, I had this "digital typewriter" of sorts that ran Palm OS. Very nifty little device... it was far more lightweight than laptops of the time, and the battery lasted weeks.
- m0zg 8y ago
  Your handwriting would be faster and easier to decipher, out of necessity. Moreover, research shows that because of this bandwidth restriction (and because you can draw easily on paper), you'd memorize the material much better, because you'd be forced to summarize it before you write it down, so it's entirely possible that you'd get into an even better college. Without the internet, at least in school that my son goes to, the computers are utterly useless because everything is online. They have an internet filter, but kids find holes in it anyway. Kids whose parents don't give a shit just browse bullshit during class. At home I use a combination of PiHole and OPNSense to filter things until homework is done. The list of sites and wildcards is well over 1000 entries long, and I still can't block everything I need to.
  - AndrewDucker 8y ago
    I didn't get a computer until university. My handwriting was terrible, remained terrible, and my ability to write essays increased dramatically when I was able to do so with a computer.
    - m0zg 8y ago
      Essays, yes, I can see how a computer would help with essay writing. To write well by hand, one has to rewrite them twice: first write notes and fragments, then draft, then edited essay. But I don't know how I'd take notes in science and math if I couldn't quickly write formulae and draw. My handwriting is also terrible, but I could read it, and I would not be academically successful if I wasn't forced to take notes. I'm 100% certain of that. In fact, I've been writing more lately as a part of my studies. Things just seem to "stick" much better if I don't passively record, but either summarize, or embody something in code.
      - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
        I'm glad that works for you, but I don't think it would have worked for me, and you shouldn't presume everyone learns the same way. I took handwritten notes extensively throughout middle school and never really got better at it. I don't have the hand coordination. Learning to type around 8th grade was a revelatory experience, and it had a noticeable impact in my academic performance. Writing, reviewing, note taking, and even just general organization became much easier, and I thus got better at it. I will say, dealing with math symbols on my typewriter-device was always a bit annoying, and I would sometimes write formulas from those classes on a standard notepad. I would hope that nowadays, we have better programs for dealing mathematical notation (in an easy/expedient way).
somebadguy 8y ago
If you have to watch your FIFTEEN year old like a hawk, that says much about your parenting skills.

by m0zg 8y ago

guidedlight 8y ago

In Australia, it’s mostly the government run schools that heavily promote laptops and tablets in the classrooms. Private run schools are increasingly going back to pen and paper under pressure from parents who work in corporate jobs, and see an overreliance on computers as a disadvantage.

m0zg 8y ago
Overreliance isn't quite the word. It's as if someone told them they "have" to do it, and they're happy to oblige. I have a feeling (unsubstantiated) that nobody has seriously studied whether screens are advantageous in the classroom. My anecdata suggests they are strongly detrimental, especially in middle school.

Wowfunhappy 8y ago

If I hadn't been allowed to take notes on a computer in school--or if I'd been born a few decades earlier and computers weren't available--I literally don't think I would be where I am today. As in, my grades would have been worse, I would have gotten into a lesser college, etc. My handwriting is slow and difficult to decipher. And handwriting makes tiny revisions—adding words into the middle of a sentence, restructuring a sentence slightly, etc—unduly annoying. If the internet is a problem, disable the internet. I should mention, I actually didn't start using a normal laptop until college. In grade school, I had this "digital typewriter" of sorts that ran Palm OS. Very nifty little device... it was far more lightweight than laptops of the time, and the battery lasted weeks.

m0zg 8y ago
Your handwriting would be faster and easier to decipher, out of necessity. Moreover, research shows that because of this bandwidth restriction (and because you can draw easily on paper), you'd memorize the material much better, because you'd be forced to summarize it before you write it down, so it's entirely possible that you'd get into an even better college. Without the internet, at least in school that my son goes to, the computers are utterly useless because everything is online. They have an internet filter, but kids find holes in it anyway. Kids whose parents don't give a shit just browse bullshit during class. At home I use a combination of PiHole and OPNSense to filter things until homework is done. The list of sites and wildcards is well over 1000 entries long, and I still can't block everything I need to.
- AndrewDucker 8y ago
  I didn't get a computer until university. My handwriting was terrible, remained terrible, and my ability to write essays increased dramatically when I was able to do so with a computer.
  - m0zg 8y ago
    Essays, yes, I can see how a computer would help with essay writing. To write well by hand, one has to rewrite them twice: first write notes and fragments, then draft, then edited essay. But I don't know how I'd take notes in science and math if I couldn't quickly write formulae and draw. My handwriting is also terrible, but I could read it, and I would not be academically successful if I wasn't forced to take notes. I'm 100% certain of that. In fact, I've been writing more lately as a part of my studies. Things just seem to "stick" much better if I don't passively record, but either summarize, or embody something in code.
    - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
      I'm glad that works for you, but I don't think it would have worked for me, and you shouldn't presume everyone learns the same way. I took handwritten notes extensively throughout middle school and never really got better at it. I don't have the hand coordination. Learning to type around 8th grade was a revelatory experience, and it had a noticeable impact in my academic performance. Writing, reviewing, note taking, and even just general organization became much easier, and I thus got better at it. I will say, dealing with math symbols on my typewriter-device was always a bit annoying, and I would sometimes write formulas from those classes on a standard notepad. I would hope that nowadays, we have better programs for dealing mathematical notation (in an easy/expedient way).

somebadguy 8y ago

If you have to watch your FIFTEEN year old like a hawk, that says much about your parenting skills.