10 ms·

Using data to determine if Die Hard is a Christmas movie

127 points by _xgw 8y ago

ChrisSD 8y ago
I wasn't aware this was even an argument. Is this a joke or an American thing? I must admit my initial reaction was bof but now I'm slightly intrigued. Maybe it's a meme?
- some_random 8y ago
  Seriously, does anyone actually think Die Hard _isn't_ a christmas movie?
  - paganel 8y ago
    The author lost me when he said that “Last Action Hero” is not a great movie, so I wouldn’t take anything he writes about movies as serious. John McTiernan is a genius.
    - ikeboy 8y ago
      It's a great movie but none of my friends agree with me about it which makes me sad. Metahumor is underappreciated
    - selimthegrim 8y ago
      I feel like you had to be 8-10 years old when it was released for the necessary imprinting to happen.
    - nhebb 8y ago
      I never understood why that movie bombed. 1993 was a huge year for blockbuster movies, so I think it just got lost in the shuffle. Anyway, underrated flick.
      - dylan604 8y ago
        It's a Hollywood story cliche. There are so many continuity problems in that movie, but if I recall, they were designed to be that way. Here's a decent write up about the whole preposterous nature of the movie: https://film.avclub.com/why-last-action-hero-failed-and-why-it-deserves-to-be-r-1798241845 https://film.avclub.com/why-last-action-hero-failed-and-why-...
  - binwiederhier 8y ago
    I had this very argument two weeks ago at a party and I was in the "it's not a Christmas movie" corner. After reading the (beautifully researched) article, I have now changed my mind. I now think it's a Christmas movie -- mostly because the writers intended for it to be one :D
    - isostatic 8y ago
      Was it an office Christmas party you were at? Was it attacked by terrorist/bank robbers?
- porphyrogene 8y ago
  The joke was popularized by an American TV show. It’s become one of those things people know they can trot out for easy upvotes, likes, etc. Most Christmas movies are family-oriented but Die Hard is an action movie so saying it’s one’s favorite Christmas movie is meant to demonstrate the distinctiveness of one’s personality. It’s like how people made jokes about sporks and “le earth”. Maybe in a few years it’ll come full circle and big data will help us to determine if sporks are closer to spoons or forks.
  - dgellow 8y ago
    > It’s like how people made jokes about [...] “le earth” What is that?
    - kbrosnan 8y ago
      A corruption of "but i am le tired." A line from a flash video from a site called Albino Blacksheep. Called 'THE END OF ZE WORLD' by Jason Windsor in 2003. ABS was known for flash videos/animations (occasional theft of content from other creators) and attracting a juvenile/college audience https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=84Ud3V9NPw8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=84Ud3V9NPw8
  - breck 8y ago
    Which show? I ask because it’s been a joke at my house for 25 years.
    - LukeShu 8y ago
      Several discussions of Die Hard being a Christmas movie happen in the show Brooklyn Nine-Nine, as Jake Peralta (Andy Samberg) is obsessed with the movie.
- andrewflnr 8y ago
  It's definitely also a meme, whatever else it is. As an American, I haven't heard much about this debate before this holiday season. Definitely enjoying it, though.
  - Larrikin 8y ago
    Die Hard being regarded as a Christmas movie has been growing in popularity in the culture for many years now. I did however first hear about it being discussed in a TV show, although I can't remember which. The article also touches on another meme that has been growing for the past few years, Thanksgiving and its lack of associated songs. I remember first noticing that due to Bob's Burgers mentioning it constantly in their Thanksgiving episodes, but have now noticed that SNL has been bringing up the fact there are no Thanksgiving songs for the past couple years as well.
    - nubb 8y ago
      Was the show Brooklyn 99?
      - Larrikin 8y ago
        With all the Die Hard references, it almost certainly was.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- cptaj 8y ago
  Its a meme. Started a few years ago.
- rahoulb 8y ago
  I’m in the UK and it’s been an ongoing debate amongst my friends for many years. (Yes it is)
avar 8y ago
This is only an argument because of different ways of defining what a "Christmas movie" is, which aren't mutually exclusive: a) Whether the movie is unambiguously set during Christmas, and if so whether that's clearly an artistic choice, or as much of a coincidence as a movie that has nothing to do with the weather being set in the summer or winter. b) Whether the movie is aimed at the "Christmas movie market". I.e. released around Christmas, this'll usually coincide with a movie being more Christmas themed. The article weaves between criteria that'll fall under one or the other, without ever really acknowledging the difference between the two. Die Hard meets a) but not b), but the article doesn't mention whether or not skipping b) was intended. The studio had a hard time casting the protagonist. Was it initially meant for a Christmas release, but ended up slipping into July without the script being changed to de-Christmas theme it? More importantly, is there a reason to avoid b) without a)? Do mildly Christmas-themed movies such as Die Hard (it's not integral to the plot) get penalized in the market as a result? Why don't we see more of them?
- cptaj 8y ago
  Also C: Its a christmas movie if we all decide it is. If it becomes one more of the christmas-centric traditions, then it becomes a christmas movie.
  - reaperducer 8y ago
    Exactly. As the author noted, "Jingle Bells" was originally a Thanksgiving song before popular culture started associating it with Christmas. If "Die Hard" becomes a Christmas movie over time, it's a thing that happens. People are messy. Societies of people, exponentially so.
  - isostatic 8y ago
    Great Escape is a Christmas movie to me, it was always on around Christmas or new year as a kid.
    - rzzzt 8y ago
      Italia 1 shows "Trading Places" each year in Italy: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086465/trivia?item=tr2330606 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086465/trivia?item=tr2330606
code_duck 8y ago
Aha. A local bar was playing 1948 Rudolph the RNR followed by Die Hard, and I thought it was just a hipster ironic incongruity. Now I’m understanding some consider Die Hard a Christmas film.
sys_64738 8y ago
It has lots of Christmas music and Christmas themes that are the basis of every Christmas movie. Not sure why people are contrary.
madengr 8y ago
A Christmas Story is the tradition in this household.
- rdtsc 8y ago
  Same here. I could just watch it on a loop. Some channels used to even show it like that during Christmas. Now that we have kids they are too young for the humor and don't find it as funny. We tried Home Alone but it just doesn't feel right. So I think we settled on Elf as a compromise.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  And in millions of other American households. In just a few hours, TNT will begin its annual "24 Hours of A Christmas Story" marathon. In 2013, each airing had between three and five million viewers: http://www.achristmasstoryhouse.com/a-christmas-story-movie-facts/viewership/ http://www.achristmasstoryhouse.com/a-christmas-story-movie-...
ineedasername 8y ago
My initial sense is it's not a Christmas movie because the typical example of such is a movie that has something like "the joy of Christmas" as its core message or theme. But I'm hardly the most buff of film buffs, so I wonder: are the any movies with something of a negative message, or just any counterexample that is clearly a Christmas movie that doesn't meet this criteria of "joy" etc.?
- ant6n 8y ago
  Die Hard?
- StevePerkins 8y ago
  "Bad Santa" is absolutely, unironically, my favorite Christmas movie of all time. And while Billy Bob Thorton's character does have a measure of redemption at the end, it overall is a dark comedy that is clearly the opposite of what you describe.
  - ineedasername 8y ago
    Okay, that has to be the most absolutely perfect counter example. Excellent choice, thanks!
jlpicard 8y ago
Now for the real question. Is Die Hard 2 also a Christmas movie?
new_guy 8y ago
All that 'analysis' and not one mention of the fact that McClanes wife is named Holly!
- rusk 8y ago
  Wonderful
combatentropy 8y ago
Talk about overthinking it! This thread highlights the recurrent conflict that arises because my Myers-Briggs personality type is INFJ, but most programmers are not. To me a Christmas movie is a movie with the spirit of Christmas running through it, however weakly. Another definition I have is this. A Christmas movie is a movie that is fun to watch around Christmas. Die Hard meets both of these definitions. Die Hard is not, however, a typical Christmas movie. It's a movie more for people who are sick of the normal Christmas movies and want a break. Because of this special status, people who think of Die Hard as a Christmas movie feel a greater camaraderie than people who think, say, White Christmas is a Christmas movie. For example, at a Christmas party one of my friends wore, as his "Christmas sweater," a gray sweatshirt with the words "Ho ho ho" written in red. Another thing that makes Die Hard special is the thought and care that the director put into it, https://vimeo.com/76739972 https://vimeo.com/76739972
- badrabbit 8y ago
  I think the correct answer is: depends on what Christmas is to you. Is Christmas the american generic holiday or the Christian holiday celebrating the birth of the Christ? That definition makes a big difference on answering whether or not something is a Christmas thing.
  - rusk 8y ago
    Well by your latter definition a whole swathe of Christmas movies would be disqualified ...
    - badrabbit 8y ago
      Yeah, and there are a large number of americans that watch Christian/Biblical movies and consider those to be more Christian. Otoh,there are also a lot of people that think hallmark movies are Christmas movies while some disagree. It's a celebration,societal consensus is not needed to determine how smaller groups of people want to celebrate it. Lets not force our celebrations on each other. My definition is the latter but I don't care one bit if others watch die hard and home alone while I watch the Gospel of John or something that has nothing to do with Christmas.
tsumnia 8y ago
Know what? I'm fine either way - I'd rather argue with my dad about whether Die Hard is a Christmas movie than politics and the economy any day. So here's my vote - arguing ABOUT Die Hard being a Christmas move HAS BECOME a Christmas tradition.

127 points by _xgw 8y ago

I wasn't aware this was even an argument. Is this a joke or an American thing? I must admit my initial reaction was bof but now I'm slightly intrigued. Maybe it's a meme?

some_random 8y ago
Seriously, does anyone actually think Die Hard _isn't_ a christmas movie?
- paganel 8y ago
  The author lost me when he said that “Last Action Hero” is not a great movie, so I wouldn’t take anything he writes about movies as serious. John McTiernan is a genius.
  - ikeboy 8y ago
    It's a great movie but none of my friends agree with me about it which makes me sad. Metahumor is underappreciated
  - selimthegrim 8y ago
    I feel like you had to be 8-10 years old when it was released for the necessary imprinting to happen.
  - nhebb 8y ago
    I never understood why that movie bombed. 1993 was a huge year for blockbuster movies, so I think it just got lost in the shuffle. Anyway, underrated flick.
    - dylan604 8y ago
      It's a Hollywood story cliche. There are so many continuity problems in that movie, but if I recall, they were designed to be that way. Here's a decent write up about the whole preposterous nature of the movie: https://film.avclub.com/why-last-action-hero-failed-and-why-it-deserves-to-be-r-1798241845 https://film.avclub.com/why-last-action-hero-failed-and-why-...
- binwiederhier 8y ago
  I had this very argument two weeks ago at a party and I was in the "it's not a Christmas movie" corner. After reading the (beautifully researched) article, I have now changed my mind. I now think it's a Christmas movie -- mostly because the writers intended for it to be one :D
  - isostatic 8y ago
    Was it an office Christmas party you were at? Was it attacked by terrorist/bank robbers?
porphyrogene 8y ago
The joke was popularized by an American TV show. It’s become one of those things people know they can trot out for easy upvotes, likes, etc. Most Christmas movies are family-oriented but Die Hard is an action movie so saying it’s one’s favorite Christmas movie is meant to demonstrate the distinctiveness of one’s personality. It’s like how people made jokes about sporks and “le earth”. Maybe in a few years it’ll come full circle and big data will help us to determine if sporks are closer to spoons or forks.
- dgellow 8y ago
  > It’s like how people made jokes about [...] “le earth” What is that?
  - kbrosnan 8y ago
    A corruption of "but i am le tired." A line from a flash video from a site called Albino Blacksheep. Called 'THE END OF ZE WORLD' by Jason Windsor in 2003. ABS was known for flash videos/animations (occasional theft of content from other creators) and attracting a juvenile/college audience https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=84Ud3V9NPw8 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=84Ud3V9NPw8
- breck 8y ago
  Which show? I ask because it’s been a joke at my house for 25 years.
  - LukeShu 8y ago
    Several discussions of Die Hard being a Christmas movie happen in the show Brooklyn Nine-Nine, as Jake Peralta (Andy Samberg) is obsessed with the movie.
andrewflnr 8y ago
It's definitely also a meme, whatever else it is. As an American, I haven't heard much about this debate before this holiday season. Definitely enjoying it, though.
- Larrikin 8y ago
  Die Hard being regarded as a Christmas movie has been growing in popularity in the culture for many years now. I did however first hear about it being discussed in a TV show, although I can't remember which. The article also touches on another meme that has been growing for the past few years, Thanksgiving and its lack of associated songs. I remember first noticing that due to Bob's Burgers mentioning it constantly in their Thanksgiving episodes, but have now noticed that SNL has been bringing up the fact there are no Thanksgiving songs for the past couple years as well.
  - nubb 8y ago
    Was the show Brooklyn 99?
    - Larrikin 8y ago
      With all the Die Hard references, it almost certainly was.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
cptaj 8y ago
Its a meme. Started a few years ago.
rahoulb 8y ago
I’m in the UK and it’s been an ongoing debate amongst my friends for many years. (Yes it is)

avar 8y ago

This is only an argument because of different ways of defining what a "Christmas movie" is, which aren't mutually exclusive: a) Whether the movie is unambiguously set during Christmas, and if so whether that's clearly an artistic choice, or as much of a coincidence as a movie that has nothing to do with the weather being set in the summer or winter. b) Whether the movie is aimed at the "Christmas movie market". I.e. released around Christmas, this'll usually coincide with a movie being more Christmas themed. The article weaves between criteria that'll fall under one or the other, without ever really acknowledging the difference between the two. Die Hard meets a) but not b), but the article doesn't mention whether or not skipping b) was intended. The studio had a hard time casting the protagonist. Was it initially meant for a Christmas release, but ended up slipping into July without the script being changed to de-Christmas theme it? More importantly, is there a reason to avoid b) without a)? Do mildly Christmas-themed movies such as Die Hard (it's not integral to the plot) get penalized in the market as a result? Why don't we see more of them?

cptaj 8y ago
Also C: Its a christmas movie if we all decide it is. If it becomes one more of the christmas-centric traditions, then it becomes a christmas movie.
- reaperducer 8y ago
  Exactly. As the author noted, "Jingle Bells" was originally a Thanksgiving song before popular culture started associating it with Christmas. If "Die Hard" becomes a Christmas movie over time, it's a thing that happens. People are messy. Societies of people, exponentially so.
- isostatic 8y ago
  Great Escape is a Christmas movie to me, it was always on around Christmas or new year as a kid.
  - rzzzt 8y ago
    Italia 1 shows "Trading Places" each year in Italy: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086465/trivia?item=tr2330606 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0086465/trivia?item=tr2330606

code_duck 8y ago

Aha. A local bar was playing 1948 Rudolph the RNR followed by Die Hard, and I thought it was just a hipster ironic incongruity. Now I’m understanding some consider Die Hard a Christmas film.

sys_64738 8y ago

It has lots of Christmas music and Christmas themes that are the basis of every Christmas movie. Not sure why people are contrary.

madengr 8y ago

A Christmas Story is the tradition in this household.

rdtsc 8y ago
Same here. I could just watch it on a loop. Some channels used to even show it like that during Christmas. Now that we have kids they are too young for the humor and don't find it as funny. We tried Home Alone but it just doesn't feel right. So I think we settled on Elf as a compromise.
reaperducer 8y ago
And in millions of other American households. In just a few hours, TNT will begin its annual "24 Hours of A Christmas Story" marathon. In 2013, each airing had between three and five million viewers: http://www.achristmasstoryhouse.com/a-christmas-story-movie-facts/viewership/ http://www.achristmasstoryhouse.com/a-christmas-story-movie-...

ineedasername 8y ago

My initial sense is it's not a Christmas movie because the typical example of such is a movie that has something like "the joy of Christmas" as its core message or theme. But I'm hardly the most buff of film buffs, so I wonder: are the any movies with something of a negative message, or just any counterexample that is clearly a Christmas movie that doesn't meet this criteria of "joy" etc.?

ant6n 8y ago
Die Hard?
StevePerkins 8y ago
"Bad Santa" is absolutely, unironically, my favorite Christmas movie of all time. And while Billy Bob Thorton's character does have a measure of redemption at the end, it overall is a dark comedy that is clearly the opposite of what you describe.
- ineedasername 8y ago
  Okay, that has to be the most absolutely perfect counter example. Excellent choice, thanks!

jlpicard 8y ago

Now for the real question. Is Die Hard 2 also a Christmas movie?

new_guy 8y ago

All that 'analysis' and not one mention of the fact that McClanes wife is named Holly!

rusk 8y ago
Wonderful

combatentropy 8y ago

Talk about overthinking it! This thread highlights the recurrent conflict that arises because my Myers-Briggs personality type is INFJ, but most programmers are not. To me a Christmas movie is a movie with the spirit of Christmas running through it, however weakly. Another definition I have is this. A Christmas movie is a movie that is fun to watch around Christmas. Die Hard meets both of these definitions. Die Hard is not, however, a typical Christmas movie. It's a movie more for people who are sick of the normal Christmas movies and want a break. Because of this special status, people who think of Die Hard as a Christmas movie feel a greater camaraderie than people who think, say, White Christmas is a Christmas movie. For example, at a Christmas party one of my friends wore, as his "Christmas sweater," a gray sweatshirt with the words "Ho ho ho" written in red. Another thing that makes Die Hard special is the thought and care that the director put into it, https://vimeo.com/76739972 https://vimeo.com/76739972

badrabbit 8y ago
I think the correct answer is: depends on what Christmas is to you. Is Christmas the american generic holiday or the Christian holiday celebrating the birth of the Christ? That definition makes a big difference on answering whether or not something is a Christmas thing.
- rusk 8y ago
  Well by your latter definition a whole swathe of Christmas movies would be disqualified ...
  - badrabbit 8y ago
    Yeah, and there are a large number of americans that watch Christian/Biblical movies and consider those to be more Christian. Otoh,there are also a lot of people that think hallmark movies are Christmas movies while some disagree. It's a celebration,societal consensus is not needed to determine how smaller groups of people want to celebrate it. Lets not force our celebrations on each other. My definition is the latter but I don't care one bit if others watch die hard and home alone while I watch the Gospel of John or something that has nothing to do with Christmas.

tsumnia 8y ago

Know what? I'm fine either way - I'd rather argue with my dad about whether Die Hard is a Christmas movie than politics and the economy any day. So here's my vote - arguing ABOUT Die Hard being a Christmas move HAS BECOME a Christmas tradition.