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Mockery is otherwise known as peer pressure, and it's quite effective to make an argument clear to those on the fence who don't feel strongly either way, partic

by zorga 8y ago

Mockery is otherwise known as peer pressure, and it's quite effective to make an argument clear to those on the fence who don't feel strongly either way, particularly when many are mocking. To say mockery is not effective is to claim that peer pressure doesn't work, and I'd assert that's just wrong. Humans are social animals, they don't like being mocked, and when enough people make fun of a particular position, people will avoid taking that position.

manfredo 8y ago
Mockery is not peer pressure. Peer pressure is the phenomenon in which people feel compelled to conform to the examples set by people they see as peers. E.g. friends conforming to the examples and expectations set by each other. Peer pressure's influence scales with the degree someone respects these people as peers. Mockery usually diminishes that respect. People who mock each other rarely see each other as peers in the first place, anyway. How often have you seen a BLM activist change their views on police brutality after being mocked? I have witnessed exactly zero instances of this occurring. Same for, say, climate change skeptics. This is because they do not see the people being mocked as peers, and thus do not care about the opinion of those mocking them. This is why mocking is usually self defeating. By resorting to mockery, the people you're trying to influence no longer see you as a peer, and thus it drastically limits what influence you initially had on their views. You claim that, "when enough people make fun of a particular position, people will avoid taking that position" but I have never witnessed this occur. I have not once witnessed an instance in which a person changed their views after being mocked for them. How many times have you adopted a view you previously opposed because you were mocked? Do people mocking gays or immigrants people make you feel compelled to adopt their views on LGBT issues or border policy, for example? If not, why do you seem to believe that your mockery will be any different in its success (or lack thereof)? On the contrary, I have witnessed countless people take a defensive stance after being mocked for their views, and entrenching themselves even further into whatever views prompted the mockery. Not only that, it frequently makes people reluctant to take part in advancing the views of the one carrying out the mockery. In fact, this is occurring right now in this comment thread: witnessing you proudly stating that you carry out childish behavior in support of certain views is making me more reluctant to voice support of said views, even though I do agree with them, as I do not want to be associated with people such as yourself that take pride in their mockery.
- zorga 8y ago
  Your point of view is wrong, I'm not talking about the person being mocked changing anything, I'm talking about those witnessing it; those not involved in the dispute. And yes mocking is peer pressure, and yes it does work on people; if you've never seen this, you need to get out more.
  - manfredo 8y ago
    A I stated the person doing to mocking usually hurts their position more than they help it. My point of view is not wrong, I am pointing out that this applies both to the subject of the mockery and the people witnessing it. I've witnessed it repeatedly, and I have never seen it succeed in convincing those witnessing it to adopt the view of the person doing the mocking. Nor has it succeeded in leaving a positive impression on me when I have witnessed it. Take the Westboro Baptist Church's mockery of gays, for instance. It has probably convinced 10 people that anti-gay rights people are a bunch of wackjobs for every person it convinced to adopt their homophobic views. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual disparity is even bigger. The only kinds of people that react positively to witnessing mockery are the types of people that political movements would do their best to avoid: people that take pleasure in witnessing the denigration of others. As I stated before, resorting to childish behavior like mockery to make their point usually makes the people witnessing it think that the people who support that viewpoint are childish. Thus making most adults more adverse to that viewpoint than they were before. Mockery hurts support of the point in question both among the subject of the mockery, and those witnessing it.
    - zorga 8y ago
      > I've witnessed it repeatedly, and I have never seen it succeed in convincing those witnessing it to adopt the view of the person doing the mocking. Nor has it succeeded in leaving a positive impression on me when I have witnessed it. You are in a bubble of like minded people, your anecdotal experience does not apply to all people. > The only kinds of people that react positively to witnessing mockery are the types of people that political movements would do their best to avoid: people that take pleasure in witnessing the denigration of others. That's well near half or so of the voting base; try and step outside your own limited experience, everyone isn't you. Trump supporters for example very much respond to mockery, they liked that Trump mocked the other republican candidates in the primary and were swayed to vote for him based on what appeared in their eyes to be a strong performance in the debates with his peers. Frankly, you're giving people too much credit and failing to recognize that much of the population isn't very mature. Of course it's childish, that doesn't mean it doesn't work. You don't live in a country full of mature adults.

by zorga 8y ago

manfredo 8y ago

Mockery is not peer pressure. Peer pressure is the phenomenon in which people feel compelled to conform to the examples set by people they see as peers. E.g. friends conforming to the examples and expectations set by each other. Peer pressure's influence scales with the degree someone respects these people as peers. Mockery usually diminishes that respect. People who mock each other rarely see each other as peers in the first place, anyway. How often have you seen a BLM activist change their views on police brutality after being mocked? I have witnessed exactly zero instances of this occurring. Same for, say, climate change skeptics. This is because they do not see the people being mocked as peers, and thus do not care about the opinion of those mocking them. This is why mocking is usually self defeating. By resorting to mockery, the people you're trying to influence no longer see you as a peer, and thus it drastically limits what influence you initially had on their views. You claim that, "when enough people make fun of a particular position, people will avoid taking that position" but I have never witnessed this occur. I have not once witnessed an instance in which a person changed their views after being mocked for them. How many times have you adopted a view you previously opposed because you were mocked? Do people mocking gays or immigrants people make you feel compelled to adopt their views on LGBT issues or border policy, for example? If not, why do you seem to believe that your mockery will be any different in its success (or lack thereof)? On the contrary, I have witnessed countless people take a defensive stance after being mocked for their views, and entrenching themselves even further into whatever views prompted the mockery. Not only that, it frequently makes people reluctant to take part in advancing the views of the one carrying out the mockery. In fact, this is occurring right now in this comment thread: witnessing you proudly stating that you carry out childish behavior in support of certain views is making me more reluctant to voice support of said views, even though I do agree with them, as I do not want to be associated with people such as yourself that take pride in their mockery.

zorga 8y ago
Your point of view is wrong, I'm not talking about the person being mocked changing anything, I'm talking about those witnessing it; those not involved in the dispute. And yes mocking is peer pressure, and yes it does work on people; if you've never seen this, you need to get out more.
- manfredo 8y ago
  A I stated the person doing to mocking usually hurts their position more than they help it. My point of view is not wrong, I am pointing out that this applies both to the subject of the mockery and the people witnessing it. I've witnessed it repeatedly, and I have never seen it succeed in convincing those witnessing it to adopt the view of the person doing the mocking. Nor has it succeeded in leaving a positive impression on me when I have witnessed it. Take the Westboro Baptist Church's mockery of gays, for instance. It has probably convinced 10 people that anti-gay rights people are a bunch of wackjobs for every person it convinced to adopt their homophobic views. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if the actual disparity is even bigger. The only kinds of people that react positively to witnessing mockery are the types of people that political movements would do their best to avoid: people that take pleasure in witnessing the denigration of others. As I stated before, resorting to childish behavior like mockery to make their point usually makes the people witnessing it think that the people who support that viewpoint are childish. Thus making most adults more adverse to that viewpoint than they were before. Mockery hurts support of the point in question both among the subject of the mockery, and those witnessing it.
  - zorga 8y ago
    > I've witnessed it repeatedly, and I have never seen it succeed in convincing those witnessing it to adopt the view of the person doing the mocking. Nor has it succeeded in leaving a positive impression on me when I have witnessed it. You are in a bubble of like minded people, your anecdotal experience does not apply to all people. > The only kinds of people that react positively to witnessing mockery are the types of people that political movements would do their best to avoid: people that take pleasure in witnessing the denigration of others. That's well near half or so of the voting base; try and step outside your own limited experience, everyone isn't you. Trump supporters for example very much respond to mockery, they liked that Trump mocked the other republican candidates in the primary and were swayed to vote for him based on what appeared in their eyes to be a strong performance in the debates with his peers. Frankly, you're giving people too much credit and failing to recognize that much of the population isn't very mature. Of course it's childish, that doesn't mean it doesn't work. You don't live in a country full of mature adults.