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oh god, absolutely! It's baffling to me how they did stick to a default like this for so long. It goes against any standard which has been established in simila

by ryz 8y ago

oh god, absolutely! It's baffling to me how they did stick to a default like this for so long. It goes against any standard which has been established in similar software, not only 3ds max/maya/etc. but also engines like unity/unreal. Like if some clever game developer suddenly decided to map forward movement to the right trigger and shooting to analog stick up on a gamepad control scheme in a FPS. It's one of these things which you won't be able to measure, but they will certainly have lost thousands* of people trying to switch to blender by this very simple default setting. This right here is a UX lesson - take note folks! *probably, maybe

bayesian_horse 8y ago
Every change breaks somebody's workflow... This change also has received some backlash from the existing userbase, albeit you can configure the behavior.
- snazz 8y ago
  There's even a convenient toggle in the settings for going back to all the 2.79b keybinds. Muscle memory shouldn't be a reason to not upgrade.
- astrodust 8y ago
  It's going to bring in more users than it alienates, and those that are upset about the change can always easily switch controls to "Blender Classic" in the preferences. New users don't know how to fix the behaviour. They just leave.
knolan 8y ago
A lot of Blender is completely customisable. It takes a few seconds to find user preferences, make the required change and even switch to a colour scheme to match Maya/Max etc. The thing is, however, Blender is more than just a Maya/Max replacement. It can do a hell of a lot more. It has After Effects capabilities like compositing and video camera tracking, 2D animation tools, render outlines to SVG, video editing and python scripting. It’s a bit of a jack of all trades, master of some.
- TomVDB 8y ago
  I wonder if I'm the only one who's extremely reluctant to change default key bindings? I find it very off putting that suddenly all existing tutorials and manuals might become bogus. Pretty much the only tool where I have custom bindings is Vim.
  - bch 8y ago
    Same. Am always envisioning having to sit down at a default configuration or _somebody else’s_ custom config. Emacs was the one I (ironically) resisted the most.
  - knolan 8y ago
    I also try to keep to default key mappings where possible. When you’re the one called on to help others in a variety of situations then keeping everything as default as much as possible is useful.
- hbosch 8y ago
  If the first thing you have to do to a software is customize it, you’ve already lost on usability. How many thousands of potential users simply created a cube and tried to click it, realize that on top of the already overwhelming UI you don’t even know how to click something in this software, then just exit and take to the internet to echo that Blender is unusable.
  - knolan 8y ago
    You don’t have to do anything, I’ve taught several people how to use Blender and the right click to select thing wasn’t an issue. I won’t deny that it’s complex software but so are all professional 3D applications. Try and use Solidworks or (shudder) Creo/ProE or Maya or Max and selecting a cube will be the least of your issues. All of these tools require some degree of training that’s part of the landscape.
    - westoncb 8y ago
      As a counter point: I've used a bunch of 3d modeling applications, starting with the Max Payne and Unreal level editors back in ~2002, and have since used SolidWorks, 3D studio max, modo, zbrush and various iterations of Blender throughout the years. The controls in Blender are so terrible for me I've basically always given up in frustration within an hour or so. The reason I didn't customize the controls is because I shuddered at how awful the UI for doing that probably was, and feared other lurking UI terrors were I to invest in adopting the app.
orbital-decay 8y ago
> Like if some clever game developer suddenly decided to map forward movement to the right trigger and shooting to analog stick up on a gamepad control scheme in a FPS. It's like with Emacs and its defaults. It wasn't breaking any convention originally, because there were no conventions back then, and it made sense for this particular case. Right-click selection was born before Blender, in Traces for Amiga. It was 1988 and the "standards" of today weren't established yet. Traces didn't become Blender directly, but this particular behavior has been carried over to it. Years have passed, and another convention won. Maya, another software with quite a legacy, also has a lot of things considered archaic today. None of that is right-click selection tier, though.
- msla 8y ago
  In Emacs, you can start the GUI version and use the menus, and it isn't modal so you can just start typing and it'll work like it does in Notepad. You won't get the advanced features Emacs has, but there's no standardization for "text editor advanced features" anyway, especially if you don't distinguish between text editors and word processors and think a ribbon bar is a UI standard.
agumonkey 8y ago
I use emacs, so I shouldn't disregard non ~standard defaults.. but blender was just too odd. 2.8 aligns it not with standards but with human ergonomics.
iamcreasy 8y ago
> oh god, absolutely! It's baffling to me how they did stick to a default like this for so long. Because they wanted to develop Blender for Blender users.
thatoneuser 8y ago
I’d be surprised if thousands properly encapsulates it. I’ve used blender various times for like... 15 years? I think it’s a phenomenal tool. Absolutely amazing for what it can all do and the fact that it’s free. Truly is an amazing project. But god damn I’ve never even gotten close to being comfortable using their interface. Every tutorial online seems to be flawed in some way, so that you have to look up another tutorial to find some feature. I really can’t follow the logic they use to organize things. Is there a feature where you can type the name of a function into a search and it just pops up? If so I’d probably save 80+% of my time spent in the program.

by ryz 8y ago

bayesian_horse 8y ago

Every change breaks somebody's workflow... This change also has received some backlash from the existing userbase, albeit you can configure the behavior.

snazz 8y ago
There's even a convenient toggle in the settings for going back to all the 2.79b keybinds. Muscle memory shouldn't be a reason to not upgrade.
astrodust 8y ago
It's going to bring in more users than it alienates, and those that are upset about the change can always easily switch controls to "Blender Classic" in the preferences. New users don't know how to fix the behaviour. They just leave.

knolan 8y ago

A lot of Blender is completely customisable. It takes a few seconds to find user preferences, make the required change and even switch to a colour scheme to match Maya/Max etc. The thing is, however, Blender is more than just a Maya/Max replacement. It can do a hell of a lot more. It has After Effects capabilities like compositing and video camera tracking, 2D animation tools, render outlines to SVG, video editing and python scripting. It’s a bit of a jack of all trades, master of some.

TomVDB 8y ago
I wonder if I'm the only one who's extremely reluctant to change default key bindings? I find it very off putting that suddenly all existing tutorials and manuals might become bogus. Pretty much the only tool where I have custom bindings is Vim.
- bch 8y ago
  Same. Am always envisioning having to sit down at a default configuration or _somebody else’s_ custom config. Emacs was the one I (ironically) resisted the most.
- knolan 8y ago
  I also try to keep to default key mappings where possible. When you’re the one called on to help others in a variety of situations then keeping everything as default as much as possible is useful.
hbosch 8y ago
If the first thing you have to do to a software is customize it, you’ve already lost on usability. How many thousands of potential users simply created a cube and tried to click it, realize that on top of the already overwhelming UI you don’t even know how to click something in this software, then just exit and take to the internet to echo that Blender is unusable.
- knolan 8y ago
  You don’t have to do anything, I’ve taught several people how to use Blender and the right click to select thing wasn’t an issue. I won’t deny that it’s complex software but so are all professional 3D applications. Try and use Solidworks or (shudder) Creo/ProE or Maya or Max and selecting a cube will be the least of your issues. All of these tools require some degree of training that’s part of the landscape.
  - westoncb 8y ago
    As a counter point: I've used a bunch of 3d modeling applications, starting with the Max Payne and Unreal level editors back in ~2002, and have since used SolidWorks, 3D studio max, modo, zbrush and various iterations of Blender throughout the years. The controls in Blender are so terrible for me I've basically always given up in frustration within an hour or so. The reason I didn't customize the controls is because I shuddered at how awful the UI for doing that probably was, and feared other lurking UI terrors were I to invest in adopting the app.

orbital-decay 8y ago

> Like if some clever game developer suddenly decided to map forward movement to the right trigger and shooting to analog stick up on a gamepad control scheme in a FPS. It's like with Emacs and its defaults. It wasn't breaking any convention originally, because there were no conventions back then, and it made sense for this particular case. Right-click selection was born before Blender, in Traces for Amiga. It was 1988 and the "standards" of today weren't established yet. Traces didn't become Blender directly, but this particular behavior has been carried over to it. Years have passed, and another convention won. Maya, another software with quite a legacy, also has a lot of things considered archaic today. None of that is right-click selection tier, though.

msla 8y ago
In Emacs, you can start the GUI version and use the menus, and it isn't modal so you can just start typing and it'll work like it does in Notepad. You won't get the advanced features Emacs has, but there's no standardization for "text editor advanced features" anyway, especially if you don't distinguish between text editors and word processors and think a ribbon bar is a UI standard.

agumonkey 8y ago

I use emacs, so I shouldn't disregard non ~standard defaults.. but blender was just too odd. 2.8 aligns it not with standards but with human ergonomics.

iamcreasy 8y ago

> oh god, absolutely! It's baffling to me how they did stick to a default like this for so long. Because they wanted to develop Blender for Blender users.

thatoneuser 8y ago

I’d be surprised if thousands properly encapsulates it. I’ve used blender various times for like... 15 years? I think it’s a phenomenal tool. Absolutely amazing for what it can all do and the fact that it’s free. Truly is an amazing project. But god damn I’ve never even gotten close to being comfortable using their interface. Every tutorial online seems to be flawed in some way, so that you have to look up another tutorial to find some feature. I really can’t follow the logic they use to organize things. Is there a feature where you can type the name of a function into a search and it just pops up? If so I’d probably save 80+% of my time spent in the program.