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Agree with the sentiment, but was there ever a push for decentralisation? Seems to me that the original decentralisation of the internet was circumstantial. It

Agree with the sentiment, but was there ever a push for decentralisation? Seems to me that the original decentralisation of the internet was circumstantial. It was due to the technology of the time (limited resources + aarpanet nuclear strike resistant design) and where it was first established (universities - which lack a unifying hierarchy).

salawat 8y ago
Are you asking a rhetorical question? You sort of answered it yourself. And yes, there was always a push to decentralize. However, network effects lead to some nodes becoming more heavily connected than others until such time that the consolidation of resource in hypernodes starts to have unintended side effects that are deleterious to the system as a whole. That tends to intensify the push to decentralize, while damping pushes to centralize. Nature as acted out through man.
- edmundsauto 8y ago
  The issue I see with decentralization is that the practical surfaces (websites, devices, etc) are so difficult for the vast majority of the population to use. Simply the mental overhead of deciding whether to use Voat, reddit, Discord, or whatnot will stop a large number of people from ever participating online. Decentralization is great for those of us who don't have the cognitive overhead, but adds a lot of complexity that this tribe underestimates. My mom, for example, hasn't been able to understand the difference between a text message and an email, and she's been actively online for about 5 years now. To her, it's all a way to communicate, but when I try to explain that email has a subject line, and text messages don't.... it's beyond her grasp. Decentralizing will help with some of the issues that are currently front and center to technologists, but it will exclude a huge number of people.
  - 40acres 8y ago
    I disagree, my earlier point illustrates this a bit more. I think early on the internet was so novel that only the experienced (programmers, academics, industry folks) could navigate it. Once the browser, Google, and smartphones arrived more and more people could access the internet, billions of people now know the rules of the road, although of course some are more expert than others. I think your mother is a bit of an outlier. My dad is over 70 but can navigate the basics of the internet: how to text, take a photo, stream content on Youtube, etc. I think now that this basic level of competency has been reached decentralization can occur. I think you're correct in terms of the friction, no one but nerds wants to go through the hassle of setting up their own private, decentralized network. We need systems that are as frictionless as going on Facebook or typing a query into Youtube, in my opinion this has been the main flaw of decentralized platforms.
    - edmundsauto 8y ago
      The fact that your father is able to navigate complexity doesn't really disprove my point. Some percentage of people will be excluded / unable to participate if things are decentralized. Whether that segment is sufficiently large, or whether people care about them having access, is left to each person's opinion. Centralization has significant advantages. People love one location for what they need because it simplifies things. That enables more folks to participate due to lower friction. Whether the downsides outweigh the positives is left to the reader. My broader point is the centralized/de-centralized discussion should be framed in terms of tradeoffs. One is not necessarily superior to the other; it depends on how each person weights the relative benefits and downsides. It's important to acknowledge that the general internet public, so far, seems to prefer the advantages of centralization. That may be because the disadvantages are hidden, or it may be a legitimate preference.

salawat 8y ago

Are you asking a rhetorical question? You sort of answered it yourself. And yes, there was always a push to decentralize. However, network effects lead to some nodes becoming more heavily connected than others until such time that the consolidation of resource in hypernodes starts to have unintended side effects that are deleterious to the system as a whole. That tends to intensify the push to decentralize, while damping pushes to centralize. Nature as acted out through man.

edmundsauto 8y ago
The issue I see with decentralization is that the practical surfaces (websites, devices, etc) are so difficult for the vast majority of the population to use. Simply the mental overhead of deciding whether to use Voat, reddit, Discord, or whatnot will stop a large number of people from ever participating online. Decentralization is great for those of us who don't have the cognitive overhead, but adds a lot of complexity that this tribe underestimates. My mom, for example, hasn't been able to understand the difference between a text message and an email, and she's been actively online for about 5 years now. To her, it's all a way to communicate, but when I try to explain that email has a subject line, and text messages don't.... it's beyond her grasp. Decentralizing will help with some of the issues that are currently front and center to technologists, but it will exclude a huge number of people.
- 40acres 8y ago
  I disagree, my earlier point illustrates this a bit more. I think early on the internet was so novel that only the experienced (programmers, academics, industry folks) could navigate it. Once the browser, Google, and smartphones arrived more and more people could access the internet, billions of people now know the rules of the road, although of course some are more expert than others. I think your mother is a bit of an outlier. My dad is over 70 but can navigate the basics of the internet: how to text, take a photo, stream content on Youtube, etc. I think now that this basic level of competency has been reached decentralization can occur. I think you're correct in terms of the friction, no one but nerds wants to go through the hassle of setting up their own private, decentralized network. We need systems that are as frictionless as going on Facebook or typing a query into Youtube, in my opinion this has been the main flaw of decentralized platforms.
  - edmundsauto 8y ago
    The fact that your father is able to navigate complexity doesn't really disprove my point. Some percentage of people will be excluded / unable to participate if things are decentralized. Whether that segment is sufficiently large, or whether people care about them having access, is left to each person's opinion. Centralization has significant advantages. People love one location for what they need because it simplifies things. That enables more folks to participate due to lower friction. Whether the downsides outweigh the positives is left to the reader. My broader point is the centralized/de-centralized discussion should be framed in terms of tradeoffs. One is not necessarily superior to the other; it depends on how each person weights the relative benefits and downsides. It's important to acknowledge that the general internet public, so far, seems to prefer the advantages of centralization. That may be because the disadvantages are hidden, or it may be a legitimate preference.