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Interesting to see the difference in style of old Linus vs new reformed Linus. Seems like the new style comes across as just heavily disappointed and with a br

Interesting to see the difference in style of old Linus vs new reformed Linus. Seems like the new style comes across as just heavily disappointed and with a breach of trust, which I guess compared to the plain anger of old is easier to convey without swearing and vivid imagery. I think I personally would still prefer to receive one of the old style messages, but that's probably just because I better handle people angry with me than disappointed.

Semaphor 8y ago
I agree. I read this and thought it was really depressing. And I'm not even the person this was targeted at.
- philwelch 8y ago
  A classic Linus rant has all the same basic information ("backwards compatibility is the first rule of kernel maintenance", "you've been a contributor long enough that you should know this", "I'm reverting your changes and no longer accepting pull requests from you"), but it also has the added comic relief of Linus swearing and ranting. Take away the swearing and ranting and this is just uncomfortable to read.
newnewpdro 8y ago
> I better handle people angry with me than disappointed. This, so much this. I was raised in a hot-headed european household where people would get angry and argue energetically, often using coarse language. It clearly demonstrated care, passion, and a willingness and desire to continue suffering together. The low-energy disappointed response sends a very different message. It's probably my upbringing, but it leaves me feeling like the collaboration is over and I should pack up my things.
philwelch 8y ago
> I think I personally would still prefer to receive one of the old style messages, but that's probably just because I better handle people angry with me than disappointed. That's actually not that unusual. I actually found this email a lot harsher, in a certain sense. When you losing your temper and swear at people, it's scary and intimidating because the hindbrain recognizes that behavior as, "this person is very likely to hit me". And since hindbrains are hindbrains, this reaction still happens even if it's over the internet. But you also end up making a big fool of yourself and leading people to discount what you're saying out of hand, because obviously you're angry and worked up. People losing their temper are hilarious from a safe distance, which is among other things the basic premise of Lewis Black's entire career as a comedian. When you calmly and methodically communicate using only facts and logic, you do lose the hindbrain "this guy is going to hit me" reaction. But you get something more powerful. Heated anger indicates an unresolved problem. That's why you're all worked up--you have a nice little adrenaline rush going because you've detected a problem and you're fired up to go fix it. Being calm, even cold, is much more final: it indicates that everything is resolved. This approach completely disarms the defense mechanism of saying "Linus is just a dick" or thinking that he only said what he said out of anger.
seabird 8y ago
I'd personally opt for the over-the-top flaming myself, as well. Although it doesn't cultivate a professional image, I strongly prefer it over the "but before I kill you, Mr. Bond..." tone that this example gives off. I've worked with people who weren't afraid to pop off with some choice words over poor decisions having been made, and found the impassioned anger toward choices that threaten something they really give a shit about is a lot easier to get over than something like this mailing list post. People get angry over things they care about, but they'll cool off, and you'll learn what matters to them. However, if you're playing by The Rules and break them, you'll carry that mark for years, regardless of whether or not who's enforcing got over the incident.

Semaphor 8y ago

I agree. I read this and thought it was really depressing. And I'm not even the person this was targeted at.

philwelch 8y ago
A classic Linus rant has all the same basic information ("backwards compatibility is the first rule of kernel maintenance", "you've been a contributor long enough that you should know this", "I'm reverting your changes and no longer accepting pull requests from you"), but it also has the added comic relief of Linus swearing and ranting. Take away the swearing and ranting and this is just uncomfortable to read.

newnewpdro 8y ago

> I better handle people angry with me than disappointed. This, so much this. I was raised in a hot-headed european household where people would get angry and argue energetically, often using coarse language. It clearly demonstrated care, passion, and a willingness and desire to continue suffering together. The low-energy disappointed response sends a very different message. It's probably my upbringing, but it leaves me feeling like the collaboration is over and I should pack up my things.

philwelch 8y ago

> I think I personally would still prefer to receive one of the old style messages, but that's probably just because I better handle people angry with me than disappointed. That's actually not that unusual. I actually found this email a lot harsher, in a certain sense. When you losing your temper and swear at people, it's scary and intimidating because the hindbrain recognizes that behavior as, "this person is very likely to hit me". And since hindbrains are hindbrains, this reaction still happens even if it's over the internet. But you also end up making a big fool of yourself and leading people to discount what you're saying out of hand, because obviously you're angry and worked up. People losing their temper are hilarious from a safe distance, which is among other things the basic premise of Lewis Black's entire career as a comedian. When you calmly and methodically communicate using only facts and logic, you do lose the hindbrain "this guy is going to hit me" reaction. But you get something more powerful. Heated anger indicates an unresolved problem. That's why you're all worked up--you have a nice little adrenaline rush going because you've detected a problem and you're fired up to go fix it. Being calm, even cold, is much more final: it indicates that everything is resolved. This approach completely disarms the defense mechanism of saying "Linus is just a dick" or thinking that he only said what he said out of anger.

seabird 8y ago

I'd personally opt for the over-the-top flaming myself, as well. Although it doesn't cultivate a professional image, I strongly prefer it over the "but before I kill you, Mr. Bond..." tone that this example gives off. I've worked with people who weren't afraid to pop off with some choice words over poor decisions having been made, and found the impassioned anger toward choices that threaten something they really give a shit about is a lot easier to get over than something like this mailing list post. People get angry over things they care about, but they'll cool off, and you'll learn what matters to them. However, if you're playing by The Rules and break them, you'll carry that mark for years, regardless of whether or not who's enforcing got over the incident.