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As a child of two union parents and married to a union worker, it is clear to me that the only contact the author has had with unions is in his dreams. Unions

by bhawks 8y ago

As a child of two union parents and married to a union worker, it is clear to me that the only contact the author has had with unions is in his dreams. Unions constantly have to deal with internal corruption (and often don't...). The seniority system is much more arbitrary than anything approximating meritocracy. Better hope that you've saved enough if/when the union decides to strike because you are going to have to suck it up even if you don't think it's worth it. You better buy in to all the politics your union supports because your dues go to it. Enjoy watching the union protect the most incompetent worker who will go on to put lives at risk with his drinking problem. Just don't count on the union going to bat for you against the company, if they don't like you they'll hang to out to dry. The author is out of his depth.

bhawks 8y ago
Disappointed but not surprised that folks are down voting instead of replying. The unionization discussion focuses way too much around compensation instead of on union-employee relations. People just assume unions are all roses in this department (the author likens them to some street fighting Batman) when in reality they're flawed and have incentives that work against workers too. If you don't think there's nepotism and favoritism in unions then you've probably never worked in one. Unions pick and choose the workers they stand up for, it's not some romantic all for one and one for all story. In my experience you should trust the union just about as much as hr or management. If you're not on the same side as them in whatever issue, watch your back.
- bjourne 8y ago
  The "As a child of two union parents ..." argument in relation to unionization is the equivalent of the "As a mom of two children ..." argument in relation to child psychology. I also have two parents who are members of a union but that doesn't make me an expert!
  - yellowapple 8y ago
    Perhaps not, but it does give you exposure to a wealth of first-hand information. I don't think the mother-of-two-children's opinion is worthless relative to a child psychologist, either; both have insights that are valuable in different ways.
    - bjourne 8y ago
      No, it gives you a lot of anecdotal evidence that is impossible to decouple from the specific circumstances of the situation. E.g my experience with my union has been the completely opposite of everything stated by bhawks. So + 1 - 1 = 0, words have been exchanged but nothing learned.
      - yellowapple 8y ago
        "Nothing learned" only if you don't care about those "specific circumstances". The anecdotal datapoints are useful specifically because Earth's population of 7+ billion humans is remarkably efficient when it comes to running across corner cases and confounding variables. We're talking about something that does indeed have very-situationally-dependent impacts and effects. The anecdotes require filtering, sure, but they're vital if you want aggregate data that reflect the real world instead of theoretical conditions. If it's impossible to decouple something from the specific circumstances of the situation, then that "something" is insufficiently understood.
purplezooey 8y ago
But at most tech companies a meritocracy they ain't. They pretend to be but petty politics, brown-nosing, and fucked up compensation/promotions are every day fare. Unions aren't any worse or better.

by bhawks 8y ago

bhawks 8y ago

Disappointed but not surprised that folks are down voting instead of replying. The unionization discussion focuses way too much around compensation instead of on union-employee relations. People just assume unions are all roses in this department (the author likens them to some street fighting Batman) when in reality they're flawed and have incentives that work against workers too. If you don't think there's nepotism and favoritism in unions then you've probably never worked in one. Unions pick and choose the workers they stand up for, it's not some romantic all for one and one for all story. In my experience you should trust the union just about as much as hr or management. If you're not on the same side as them in whatever issue, watch your back.

bjourne 8y ago
The "As a child of two union parents ..." argument in relation to unionization is the equivalent of the "As a mom of two children ..." argument in relation to child psychology. I also have two parents who are members of a union but that doesn't make me an expert!
- yellowapple 8y ago
  Perhaps not, but it does give you exposure to a wealth of first-hand information. I don't think the mother-of-two-children's opinion is worthless relative to a child psychologist, either; both have insights that are valuable in different ways.
  - bjourne 8y ago
    No, it gives you a lot of anecdotal evidence that is impossible to decouple from the specific circumstances of the situation. E.g my experience with my union has been the completely opposite of everything stated by bhawks. So + 1 - 1 = 0, words have been exchanged but nothing learned.
    - yellowapple 8y ago
      "Nothing learned" only if you don't care about those "specific circumstances". The anecdotal datapoints are useful specifically because Earth's population of 7+ billion humans is remarkably efficient when it comes to running across corner cases and confounding variables. We're talking about something that does indeed have very-situationally-dependent impacts and effects. The anecdotes require filtering, sure, but they're vital if you want aggregate data that reflect the real world instead of theoretical conditions. If it's impossible to decouple something from the specific circumstances of the situation, then that "something" is insufficiently understood.

purplezooey 8y ago

But at most tech companies a meritocracy they ain't. They pretend to be but petty politics, brown-nosing, and fucked up compensation/promotions are every day fare. Unions aren't any worse or better.