7 ms·

To be fair, vaping is probably safer than smoking actual cigarettes. That being said, vaping/Juul has undone a decade of progress in reducing teen smoking. It s

To be fair, vaping is probably safer than smoking actual cigarettes. That being said, vaping/Juul has undone a decade of progress in reducing teen smoking. It should not be celebrated. I don't understand anyone that intentionally starts vaping. I'm a senior in college and Juuls are fairly common on campus, so it's not just a high school/teenager thing.

iak8god 8y ago
> vaping/Juul has undone a decade of progress in reducing teen smoking How much of that reduction in smoking is because of teens who would otherwise be smoking but are now vaping instead?
- yzmtf2008 8y ago
  Just look at the chart? It’s pretty obvious that smoking is consistently declining, while vaping started at a low point of smoking.
  - iak8god 8y ago
    Pretty much every year on that chart is a low point for cigarette smoking compared the years that preceded it. Note that 2015 is not when teens started vaping. It's when whoever collected this data started paying attention to vaping. I'd rather teenagers weren't using any tobacco products whatsoever, but I'm pretty sure inhaling vaporized ecig juice is much better for people's health than cigarette smoke.
    - gomox 8y ago
      > I'm pretty sure inhaling vaporized ecig juice is much better for people's health than cigarette smoke. I've seen this thinking many times in this thread. How is this so? Smoking seemed harmless in the 1950s as well.
      - hopler 8y ago
        http://gwern.net/Nicotine http://gwern.net/Nicotine Lighting a fire in your mouth is so obviously worse it's comical to debate. How would adding smoke to nicotine make it healthier?
        gomox 8y ago
        That's a drastic oversimplification. Dosage amounts and patterns are wildly different. Ecig "juice" has many components that cigarettes don't.
- kevindong 8y ago
  If you look on the graph on the tweet linked [0], very little. There's a very clear and consistent downwards linear trend in terms of cigarette use since at least 1997. Admittedly, cigarette usage does appear to have gone down faster since ~2013 (which is around the time that vapes became well known [1]). Is that caused by vapes? Maybe, maybe not. But it's clear that more teens are exposed to nicotine now that vapes are available than if vapes were not available. [0]: https://twitter.com/themehakvohra/status/1076433054099492864 https://twitter.com/themehakvohra/status/1076433054099492864 [1]: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=vape https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=v...
aerotwelve 8y ago
Nobody intentionally starts smoking, either. Nicotine is very deceptive; once you realize the dependency, it's very likely too late. Frankly, I'd probably still be smoking if tobacco use didn't have the social stigma it does today. This -- oddly enough -- is why I never touched vapes (no disincentive to quit!) and why I think Juul/Juul-like products are going to create a new epidemic of nicotine addiction in this country. This is just Altria -- Phillip Morris -- playing the same game they have been for generations. I really haven't the slightest idea why we're just sitting back and letting them do it again.
- paulcole 8y ago
  > Nobody intentionally starts smoking, either. I just tripped and it fell into my mouth!
  - pandler 8y ago
    That’s not the implication. For me personally, it started with a friend who would bum me cigarettes here and there, and I would partake for the sake of stepping outside with him. What seemed like an innocuous “just one cigarette” here and there started to turn into cravings. It was all downhill from there.
morpheuskafka 8y ago
Electronic nicotine delivery devices: - Contain ever increasing amounts of nicotine per "hit"--many teens report using an entire JuulPod per day, equal to a whole pack of cigarettes in nicotine volume. - Like menthol cigarettes, manufacturers develop ways (ex patented JuulSalts) to overcome body's natural resistance to starting and continuing nicotine abuse. - Use concentrated "e-liquid" that poses serious acute toxicity concerns to users and small children, not an issue with cigarettes Amazingly enough, research shows that youth who intentionally start nicotine abuse via electronic delivery rationalize their behavior by differentiating it from "real" smoking--compounded by misinformation from peers. It's no accident that Juul's design looks nothing like a "real" cigarette--despite delivering deadly drugs every bit as well. The vape industry (which is quickly becoming an extension of big tobacoo) wants you to believe that this is justified because they help smokers. But there is no evidence that they help people quit--and ample evidence that youth who develop nicotine use disorder from electronic delivery readily begin use of "real" cigarettes. JuulLabs/Altria do not make an FDA-approved smoking cessation device. They make an extremely effective delivery device for new abusers of nicotine. We must take a stand before the next wave of nicotine abuse takes permanent root in our society: make nicotine a schedule I controlled substance at the federal level. No longer can bigwig suits legally addict our country to a deadly drug. Sources: https://www.yalemedicine.org/stories/teen-vaping/ https://www.yalemedicine.org/stories/teen-vaping/ https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1805758 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1805758 https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/3/17529442/juul-vapes-nicotine-electronic-cigarettes-addiction-funding https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/3/17529442/juul-vapes-nicoti...
- stan_rogers 8y ago
  Health Canada and Public Health England would beg to differ.
- VyseofArcadia 8y ago
  > make nicotine a schedule I controlled substance at the federal level. No longer can bigwig suits legally addict our country to a deadly drug. Forgive my ignorance, but my understanding is that nicotine by itself is not particularly deadly, merely addictive. The only reason we consider nicotine any worse than caffeine is because of all the genuinely deadly stuff that comes along for the ride with typical nicotine delivery mechanisms (i.e. cigarettes.) If we had to smoke to get caffeine instead of drink tasty and arguably healthy beverages it would be just as stigmatized.
kizer 8y ago
https://imgur.com/a/i9rWJbb https://imgur.com/a/i9rWJbb

iak8god 8y ago

> vaping/Juul has undone a decade of progress in reducing teen smoking How much of that reduction in smoking is because of teens who would otherwise be smoking but are now vaping instead?

yzmtf2008 8y ago
Just look at the chart? It’s pretty obvious that smoking is consistently declining, while vaping started at a low point of smoking.
- iak8god 8y ago
  Pretty much every year on that chart is a low point for cigarette smoking compared the years that preceded it. Note that 2015 is not when teens started vaping. It's when whoever collected this data started paying attention to vaping. I'd rather teenagers weren't using any tobacco products whatsoever, but I'm pretty sure inhaling vaporized ecig juice is much better for people's health than cigarette smoke.
  - gomox 8y ago
    > I'm pretty sure inhaling vaporized ecig juice is much better for people's health than cigarette smoke. I've seen this thinking many times in this thread. How is this so? Smoking seemed harmless in the 1950s as well.
    - hopler 8y ago
      http://gwern.net/Nicotine http://gwern.net/Nicotine Lighting a fire in your mouth is so obviously worse it's comical to debate. How would adding smoke to nicotine make it healthier?
      - gomox 8y ago
        That's a drastic oversimplification. Dosage amounts and patterns are wildly different. Ecig "juice" has many components that cigarettes don't.
kevindong 8y ago
If you look on the graph on the tweet linked [0], very little. There's a very clear and consistent downwards linear trend in terms of cigarette use since at least 1997. Admittedly, cigarette usage does appear to have gone down faster since ~2013 (which is around the time that vapes became well known [1]). Is that caused by vapes? Maybe, maybe not. But it's clear that more teens are exposed to nicotine now that vapes are available than if vapes were not available. [0]: https://twitter.com/themehakvohra/status/1076433054099492864 https://twitter.com/themehakvohra/status/1076433054099492864 [1]: https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=vape https://trends.google.com/trends/explore?date=all&geo=US&q=v...

aerotwelve 8y ago

Nobody intentionally starts smoking, either. Nicotine is very deceptive; once you realize the dependency, it's very likely too late. Frankly, I'd probably still be smoking if tobacco use didn't have the social stigma it does today. This -- oddly enough -- is why I never touched vapes (no disincentive to quit!) and why I think Juul/Juul-like products are going to create a new epidemic of nicotine addiction in this country. This is just Altria -- Phillip Morris -- playing the same game they have been for generations. I really haven't the slightest idea why we're just sitting back and letting them do it again.

paulcole 8y ago
> Nobody intentionally starts smoking, either. I just tripped and it fell into my mouth!
- pandler 8y ago
  That’s not the implication. For me personally, it started with a friend who would bum me cigarettes here and there, and I would partake for the sake of stepping outside with him. What seemed like an innocuous “just one cigarette” here and there started to turn into cravings. It was all downhill from there.

morpheuskafka 8y ago

Electronic nicotine delivery devices: - Contain ever increasing amounts of nicotine per "hit"--many teens report using an entire JuulPod per day, equal to a whole pack of cigarettes in nicotine volume. - Like menthol cigarettes, manufacturers develop ways (ex patented JuulSalts) to overcome body's natural resistance to starting and continuing nicotine abuse. - Use concentrated "e-liquid" that poses serious acute toxicity concerns to users and small children, not an issue with cigarettes Amazingly enough, research shows that youth who intentionally start nicotine abuse via electronic delivery rationalize their behavior by differentiating it from "real" smoking--compounded by misinformation from peers. It's no accident that Juul's design looks nothing like a "real" cigarette--despite delivering deadly drugs every bit as well. The vape industry (which is quickly becoming an extension of big tobacoo) wants you to believe that this is justified because they help smokers. But there is no evidence that they help people quit--and ample evidence that youth who develop nicotine use disorder from electronic delivery readily begin use of "real" cigarettes. JuulLabs/Altria do not make an FDA-approved smoking cessation device. They make an extremely effective delivery device for new abusers of nicotine. We must take a stand before the next wave of nicotine abuse takes permanent root in our society: make nicotine a schedule I controlled substance at the federal level. No longer can bigwig suits legally addict our country to a deadly drug. Sources: https://www.yalemedicine.org/stories/teen-vaping/ https://www.yalemedicine.org/stories/teen-vaping/ https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1805758 https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1805758 https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/3/17529442/juul-vapes-nicotine-electronic-cigarettes-addiction-funding https://www.theverge.com/2018/7/3/17529442/juul-vapes-nicoti...

stan_rogers 8y ago
Health Canada and Public Health England would beg to differ.
VyseofArcadia 8y ago
> make nicotine a schedule I controlled substance at the federal level. No longer can bigwig suits legally addict our country to a deadly drug. Forgive my ignorance, but my understanding is that nicotine by itself is not particularly deadly, merely addictive. The only reason we consider nicotine any worse than caffeine is because of all the genuinely deadly stuff that comes along for the ride with typical nicotine delivery mechanisms (i.e. cigarettes.) If we had to smoke to get caffeine instead of drink tasty and arguably healthy beverages it would be just as stigmatized.

kizer 8y ago

https://imgur.com/a/i9rWJbb https://imgur.com/a/i9rWJbb