4 ms·

>how American history shook out along racial lines. Your comment is contradictory. On the one hand you say that crime, who is undesirable, and culture ate inci

>how American history shook out along racial lines. Your comment is contradictory. On the one hand you say that crime, who is undesirable, and culture ate incidental and have nothing to do with race and then in this sentence you acknowledge that American history was largely determined by race, although you use very passive language as though that "shaking out" was some benign, incidental process instead of the cruel and brutal system it was.

pishpash 8y ago
It's not contradictory at all. I'm saying historically past racist policies created a racially correlated class system, and I'll even say that in a great deal of regressive areas the past was very recent, say up to the 70's, but within the most recent generation, many of the issues people are concerned about are genuinely class issues, and they only appear to be race issues to the extent that race is still correlated with class. But there is a difference between saying people are primarily motivated by race vs. primarily motivated by class but using race as a proxy vs. primarily motivated by class only. Given that these are distinct things, it's not helpful to insist on identifying everything as being secretly racist, not because it conveniently absolves anyone of responsibility but because it muddies the discussion and denies possible solutions.
- bjcy 8y ago
  What thoughts do you have on whether or not it could be both classism and racism at the same time? Or is the hypothesis that on the spectrum running between a system primarily demotivated (since it's mostly behavior to avoid certain things) by race and class alone, some parts of American society post-70s have drastically shifted towards classism (and I guess by extension, racism is no longer a factor)? Trying to think through the implication of your thought.
- devdas 8y ago
  I would default to rasicm first, since using race as a proxy is still racist.

pishpash 8y ago

It's not contradictory at all. I'm saying historically past racist policies created a racially correlated class system, and I'll even say that in a great deal of regressive areas the past was very recent, say up to the 70's, but within the most recent generation, many of the issues people are concerned about are genuinely class issues, and they only appear to be race issues to the extent that race is still correlated with class. But there is a difference between saying people are primarily motivated by race vs. primarily motivated by class but using race as a proxy vs. primarily motivated by class only. Given that these are distinct things, it's not helpful to insist on identifying everything as being secretly racist, not because it conveniently absolves anyone of responsibility but because it muddies the discussion and denies possible solutions.

bjcy 8y ago
What thoughts do you have on whether or not it could be both classism and racism at the same time? Or is the hypothesis that on the spectrum running between a system primarily demotivated (since it's mostly behavior to avoid certain things) by race and class alone, some parts of American society post-70s have drastically shifted towards classism (and I guess by extension, racism is no longer a factor)? Trying to think through the implication of your thought.
devdas 8y ago
I would default to rasicm first, since using race as a proxy is still racist.