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No. I actually created a Facebook account in 2018. The problem is that without Facebook you will miss out. Sure, close friends and family will invite you to th

No. I actually created a Facebook account in 2018. The problem is that without Facebook you will miss out. Sure, close friends and family will invite you to their social events, but more distant acquaintances will not; you know, the bloke you met at the pub last week and had a 20 minute chat with, or that cute girl you talked to but then she suddenly she was dragged off to a birthday party by her friends. By missing out on the social opportunities you lose the chance to upgrade these people from acquaintances to friends (or even lovers), as well as meet new people. Some back story: I moved to a different country two years ago with my ex-girlfriend (for her job), and we both didn't really know anyone there. I work remote, so I don't meet a lot of people from work, either. We broke up after a year and much to my dismay I discovered I had not really made any new friends in that year, and that I was quite ... alone. So I set out to change that. Facebook – as much as I dislike the company – was helpful. I moved to yet another country two month ago, and again Facebook has been helpful. I dislike Facebook for all the standard reasons. I had an account but I deleted it about 5 or 6 years ago, but I decided that having a good social life was (and remains) vastly important to the quality of my life, and that Facebook is a tool to help achieve that goal. (Facebook didn't really "delete" my old account, as after I rejoined it remembered many of my previous friends; some of whom I had no contact with outside of Facebook, like many Egyptians I was in contact with during the 2011 rebellion whom I had met through a friend and only knew through Facebook; my "suggested friends" list was full of Arabic names). On a more deeper level, I am a little bit exasperated of always being the "different" and "difficult" person (which extends to things beyond Facebook). Standing up for your principles and "voting with your wallet" is good and all, but ... I'm not so sure it's all that effective. In this case, a more effective strategy is probably to first create a really good Facebook alternative (I'm not so sure there is one now), make sure decent privacy laws are enacted, etc.

saagarjha 8y ago
> Facebook didn't really "delete" my old account, as after I rejoined it remembered many of my previous friends Do you happen to live in Europe, by chance?
- hh3k0 8y ago
  He probably merely deactivated it and thought deactivation equals deletion. It does not.
  - Carpetsmoker 8y ago
    It's been a few years, but I'm reasonable sure I actually deleted it and didn't just deactivate it. Or at least, that was the impression Facebook gave me. There was a big "you will lose all data!" warning as well as a cooling down period of a week or so, during which I could restore my account in case I changed my mind.
    - hh3k0 8y ago
      Perhaps you logged into Facebook unconsciously or through an app within that time frame? That is enough to stop the deletion process.
      - Carpetsmoker 8y ago
        Perhaps, but unlikely; I didn't own a smartphone until January, and I've set up my browser to selectively remembering cookies for ages (I don't have Facebook in the whitelist, for reasons that should be obvious).
- Carpetsmoker 8y ago
  Yes; I was living in the UK when I created the account, but am Dutch. I now live in New Zealand. Does this matter?
  - saagarjha 8y ago
    Does the GDPR apply to you?
sjf 8y ago
The reason your friend suggestions were still there is because your email or phone number is in your friends contact list on their phone, and that data is shared with Facebook. This indirect information about you is called a shadow profile, deleting your FB account does not delete the shadow profile because the data belongs to your friends, not you.
- Carpetsmoker 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure that is not the case here, or at least not completely. These are people I never met outside of Facebook and I initially got involved through IRC. They certainly never had my phone; besides, it had changed from my old Dutch to new UK number anyway. My email has been stable for some time, but I never used it to communicate with this crowd, I'd consider it unlikely that it matched there, too.
starpilot 8y ago
I think I want to start using Facebook more in 2019 for these reasons. I have barely used it at all in the past ten years, mostly posting 3-4 pictures per year, and I never look at my feed. I'm actually afraid of looking at my feed today due to social anxiety, similar to entering a bar full of strangers talking.
Pfhreak 8y ago
Counter point, I deleted my account (not just deactivated.) I haven't missed any significant events. You can absolutely have an active and fulfilling social life without.
- Carpetsmoker 8y ago
  Sure; it's just harder. Although it also depends on who your friends are. It was easier back in the Netherlands as I was living in the city I grew up in and knew people there. I also had a regular (non-remote) job.
- bigiain 8y ago
  I'm the other way. I _know_ I miss out of a lot of things I'd know about and be interested in attending if I had a FB account still. And I'm still happy with my choice not to be there. There are groups I've lost touch with, because they no longer bother running a website or mailing list, and do everything through FB these days. Even groups I'd have bet money on _not_ going that way (looking at you, DorkBot Sydney...)
- austhrow743 8y ago
  Would you class a party hosted by that guy who was talking to that girl who was friends with the coworker you went drinking with three Fridays ago as a significant event?
- sgustard 8y ago
  Is there a reason to believe, given how little we trust Facebook, that deletion and deactivation are different things? I've built multiple consumer web apps and if there's one rule, it's that rows are never really deleted from a database. Not to mention backups, caches, Google crawls and so on. I'd worry that the naive consumer thinks they can post embarassing content to Facebook, delete their account, and somehow believe it will never be found again.
frereubu 8y ago
I missed my friend's 50th birthday party because I wasn't on Facebook (haven't been for around 3-4 years), and he assumed that everyone he wanted there was. That stung enough for me to think about it, but whenever I see people scrolling through their feeds there's so much drivel that I immediately go off the idea again.
- seppin 8y ago
  > I missed my friend's 50th birthday party because I wasn't on Facebook Hate to break it to you, but he's not really your friend. You would have known about it directly or through someone else if so. Facebook is for finding out about events / people who aren't close to you, but you're still interested in. That's its value.
  - kjar 8y ago
    Thanks for making this point, as (I hope) banal it can be. This assumption that everyone uses FB needs erasure.
  - Carpetsmoker 8y ago
    I think this is too harsh. Organising a grand 50th birthday is a lot of effort, and forgetting that one friend (who may not be a close friend but still a friend) doesn't have Facebook is easy enough.
    - bigiain 8y ago
      "Easy enough" - only if your default way of thinking is "all my friends are facebook friends". That's plain lazy thinking, it's completely giving up on your privacy-aware friends because Zuckerberg makes doing that so so easy. What a surprise.
      - Carpetsmoker 8y ago
        There are many systemic wrongs that are worth fighting to change, and a single person can't possibly fight them all at the same time. You can't expect everyone to be deeply invested in the privacy cause; some people care more about, say, feminism, or veganism, or homelessness, or something else. That's okay, too.
sfilargi 8y ago
A very close childhood friend of mine got killed last April. I didn’t learn the news till August cause I didn’t have a FB account. There is a price to pay for sticking to your principles.
krn 8y ago
A Facebook account which is accessed only via web browser with third-party cookies and notifications disabled is not the worst thing. It essentially becomes just another website. What is the worst thing though, it's installing one of the Facebook's apps on your smartphone. Because then you basically give up the entire private data of your day-to-day life. (I imagine, very few people have actually seen the full permission list of Facebook for Android, which includes almost every single possible one.)
- bigiain 8y ago
  Sure - but it just enables the behaviour of selling out your entire social circle to Zuckerburg. I know we've lost that fight - but it doesn't mean it's not worth resisting.
  - krn 8y ago
    > but it just enables the behaviour of selling out your entire social circle to Zuckerburg. If that's the main reason to quit Facebook, the question should have been: "Did you delete your Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp accounts in 2018?". Yet, somehow nobody asks that question.
    - bigiain 8y ago
      Well, not _quite_ "nobody". But yeah, I recognise I'm many standard deviations away from "normal" here... (I've also booted Twitter, and exiting Google is in-progress - except for the work GSuite account...)
    - holri 8y ago
      "Did you delete your Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp accounts in 2018?" Not possible, because I did not have any of these accounts in the first place. And I have a pretty normal social life with lots of technology, friends and activity.
      - bigato 8y ago
        Would mind elaborating about what part of the world you live in, and what are your strategies to finding out about events and interesting things to do? Because here in my country, more and more people use facebook to spread the word about events.
spiderPig 8y ago
Imo, those are valid points but still not worth giving up your privacy to Facebook for. I’d rather keep my data to myself until a non-ad supported version of either FB or some other platform comes out
cortesoft 8y ago
> Sure, close friends and family will invite you to their social events, but more distant acquaintances will not; you know, the bloke you met at the pub last week and had a 20 minute chat with, or that cute girl you talked to but then she suddenly she was dragged off to a birthday party by her friends. By missing out on the social opportunities you lose the chance to upgrade these people from acquaintances to friends (or even lovers), as well as meet new people. Man, missing those events is the BEST part about not being on facebook. I have way more than enough stuff to do, I don't need more things with random people. I have enough time for my wife, my kids, and a few outings a month with friends. I can fill that time easily, the thought of having to politely accept invitations from some bloke you met at the pub sounds horrible.
- anonu 8y ago
  From your comment and the one right above, it seems that you two are at very different life junctures. If you're married with kids, Facebook is probably the last thing you need to bother with. If you're single and looking to socialize, Facebook is probably a great enabler.
  - sizzle 8y ago
    Great point. I used mine in college extensively now it sits and collects digital dust.
  - cortesoft 8y ago
    Yeah, I understand that needs vary widely based on life stage. I realize many people want those things, I just was hoping to point out that for some of us, those things sound horrible.
rohan1024 8y ago
how about https://www.openbook.social/ https://www.openbook.social/
charlesism 8y ago
I left Facebook as soon as I realized they weren't reputable (some time around 2010 or 2011). By the time I left FB had already repeatedly betrayed user trust via "opt-out" security settings. having a good social life was (and remains) vastly important to the quality of my life, and that Facebook is a tool to help achieve that goal. From 2017: "A New, More Rigorous Study Confirms: The More You Use Facebook, the Worse You Feel" Standing up for your principles and "voting with your wallet" is good and all, but ... I'm not so sure it's all that effective. From July of this year: "Facebook on Thursday posted the largest one-day loss in market value by any company in U.S. stock market history after releasing a disastrous quarterly report."
pmlnr 8y ago
> The problem is that without Facebook you will miss out. Yes, you will. You will miss out on things that are completely fine to miss out. We need to learn that we can't and shouldn't be everywhere, know about everything, get constantly updated about everyone. Go to meetups. Find classes. Sign up for a (make|hacker)space instead.

saagarjha 8y ago

> Facebook didn't really "delete" my old account, as after I rejoined it remembered many of my previous friends Do you happen to live in Europe, by chance?

hh3k0 8y ago
He probably merely deactivated it and thought deactivation equals deletion. It does not.
- Carpetsmoker 8y ago
  It's been a few years, but I'm reasonable sure I actually deleted it and didn't just deactivate it. Or at least, that was the impression Facebook gave me. There was a big "you will lose all data!" warning as well as a cooling down period of a week or so, during which I could restore my account in case I changed my mind.
  - hh3k0 8y ago
    Perhaps you logged into Facebook unconsciously or through an app within that time frame? That is enough to stop the deletion process.
    - Carpetsmoker 8y ago
      Perhaps, but unlikely; I didn't own a smartphone until January, and I've set up my browser to selectively remembering cookies for ages (I don't have Facebook in the whitelist, for reasons that should be obvious).
Carpetsmoker 8y ago
Yes; I was living in the UK when I created the account, but am Dutch. I now live in New Zealand. Does this matter?
- saagarjha 8y ago
  Does the GDPR apply to you?

sjf 8y ago

The reason your friend suggestions were still there is because your email or phone number is in your friends contact list on their phone, and that data is shared with Facebook. This indirect information about you is called a shadow profile, deleting your FB account does not delete the shadow profile because the data belongs to your friends, not you.

Carpetsmoker 8y ago
I'm pretty sure that is not the case here, or at least not completely. These are people I never met outside of Facebook and I initially got involved through IRC. They certainly never had my phone; besides, it had changed from my old Dutch to new UK number anyway. My email has been stable for some time, but I never used it to communicate with this crowd, I'd consider it unlikely that it matched there, too.

starpilot 8y ago

I think I want to start using Facebook more in 2019 for these reasons. I have barely used it at all in the past ten years, mostly posting 3-4 pictures per year, and I never look at my feed. I'm actually afraid of looking at my feed today due to social anxiety, similar to entering a bar full of strangers talking.

Pfhreak 8y ago

Counter point, I deleted my account (not just deactivated.) I haven't missed any significant events. You can absolutely have an active and fulfilling social life without.

Carpetsmoker 8y ago
Sure; it's just harder. Although it also depends on who your friends are. It was easier back in the Netherlands as I was living in the city I grew up in and knew people there. I also had a regular (non-remote) job.
bigiain 8y ago
I'm the other way. I _know_ I miss out of a lot of things I'd know about and be interested in attending if I had a FB account still. And I'm still happy with my choice not to be there. There are groups I've lost touch with, because they no longer bother running a website or mailing list, and do everything through FB these days. Even groups I'd have bet money on _not_ going that way (looking at you, DorkBot Sydney...)
austhrow743 8y ago
Would you class a party hosted by that guy who was talking to that girl who was friends with the coworker you went drinking with three Fridays ago as a significant event?
sgustard 8y ago
Is there a reason to believe, given how little we trust Facebook, that deletion and deactivation are different things? I've built multiple consumer web apps and if there's one rule, it's that rows are never really deleted from a database. Not to mention backups, caches, Google crawls and so on. I'd worry that the naive consumer thinks they can post embarassing content to Facebook, delete their account, and somehow believe it will never be found again.

frereubu 8y ago

I missed my friend's 50th birthday party because I wasn't on Facebook (haven't been for around 3-4 years), and he assumed that everyone he wanted there was. That stung enough for me to think about it, but whenever I see people scrolling through their feeds there's so much drivel that I immediately go off the idea again.

seppin 8y ago
> I missed my friend's 50th birthday party because I wasn't on Facebook Hate to break it to you, but he's not really your friend. You would have known about it directly or through someone else if so. Facebook is for finding out about events / people who aren't close to you, but you're still interested in. That's its value.
- kjar 8y ago
  Thanks for making this point, as (I hope) banal it can be. This assumption that everyone uses FB needs erasure.
- Carpetsmoker 8y ago
  I think this is too harsh. Organising a grand 50th birthday is a lot of effort, and forgetting that one friend (who may not be a close friend but still a friend) doesn't have Facebook is easy enough.
  - bigiain 8y ago
    "Easy enough" - only if your default way of thinking is "all my friends are facebook friends". That's plain lazy thinking, it's completely giving up on your privacy-aware friends because Zuckerberg makes doing that so so easy. What a surprise.
    - Carpetsmoker 8y ago
      There are many systemic wrongs that are worth fighting to change, and a single person can't possibly fight them all at the same time. You can't expect everyone to be deeply invested in the privacy cause; some people care more about, say, feminism, or veganism, or homelessness, or something else. That's okay, too.

sfilargi 8y ago

A very close childhood friend of mine got killed last April. I didn’t learn the news till August cause I didn’t have a FB account. There is a price to pay for sticking to your principles.

krn 8y ago

A Facebook account which is accessed only via web browser with third-party cookies and notifications disabled is not the worst thing. It essentially becomes just another website. What is the worst thing though, it's installing one of the Facebook's apps on your smartphone. Because then you basically give up the entire private data of your day-to-day life. (I imagine, very few people have actually seen the full permission list of Facebook for Android, which includes almost every single possible one.)

bigiain 8y ago
Sure - but it just enables the behaviour of selling out your entire social circle to Zuckerburg. I know we've lost that fight - but it doesn't mean it's not worth resisting.
- krn 8y ago
  > but it just enables the behaviour of selling out your entire social circle to Zuckerburg. If that's the main reason to quit Facebook, the question should have been: "Did you delete your Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp accounts in 2018?". Yet, somehow nobody asks that question.
  - bigiain 8y ago
    Well, not _quite_ "nobody". But yeah, I recognise I'm many standard deviations away from "normal" here... (I've also booted Twitter, and exiting Google is in-progress - except for the work GSuite account...)
  - holri 8y ago
    "Did you delete your Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp accounts in 2018?" Not possible, because I did not have any of these accounts in the first place. And I have a pretty normal social life with lots of technology, friends and activity.
    - bigato 8y ago
      Would mind elaborating about what part of the world you live in, and what are your strategies to finding out about events and interesting things to do? Because here in my country, more and more people use facebook to spread the word about events.

spiderPig 8y ago

Imo, those are valid points but still not worth giving up your privacy to Facebook for. I’d rather keep my data to myself until a non-ad supported version of either FB or some other platform comes out

cortesoft 8y ago

> Sure, close friends and family will invite you to their social events, but more distant acquaintances will not; you know, the bloke you met at the pub last week and had a 20 minute chat with, or that cute girl you talked to but then she suddenly she was dragged off to a birthday party by her friends. By missing out on the social opportunities you lose the chance to upgrade these people from acquaintances to friends (or even lovers), as well as meet new people. Man, missing those events is the BEST part about not being on facebook. I have way more than enough stuff to do, I don't need more things with random people. I have enough time for my wife, my kids, and a few outings a month with friends. I can fill that time easily, the thought of having to politely accept invitations from some bloke you met at the pub sounds horrible.

anonu 8y ago
From your comment and the one right above, it seems that you two are at very different life junctures. If you're married with kids, Facebook is probably the last thing you need to bother with. If you're single and looking to socialize, Facebook is probably a great enabler.
- sizzle 8y ago
  Great point. I used mine in college extensively now it sits and collects digital dust.
- cortesoft 8y ago
  Yeah, I understand that needs vary widely based on life stage. I realize many people want those things, I just was hoping to point out that for some of us, those things sound horrible.

rohan1024 8y ago

how about https://www.openbook.social/ https://www.openbook.social/

charlesism 8y ago

I left Facebook as soon as I realized they weren't reputable (some time around 2010 or 2011). By the time I left FB had already repeatedly betrayed user trust via "opt-out" security settings. having a good social life was (and remains) vastly important to the quality of my life, and that Facebook is a tool to help achieve that goal. From 2017: "A New, More Rigorous Study Confirms: The More You Use Facebook, the Worse You Feel" Standing up for your principles and "voting with your wallet" is good and all, but ... I'm not so sure it's all that effective. From July of this year: "Facebook on Thursday posted the largest one-day loss in market value by any company in U.S. stock market history after releasing a disastrous quarterly report."

pmlnr 8y ago

> The problem is that without Facebook you will miss out. Yes, you will. You will miss out on things that are completely fine to miss out. We need to learn that we can't and shouldn't be everywhere, know about everything, get constantly updated about everyone. Go to meetups. Find classes. Sign up for a (make|hacker)space instead.