5 ms·

Now that rightsholders aren't allowed to settle a deal through ISPs, maybe they will go to court and ask copyright infringers to pay the full penalty. This cou

Now that rightsholders aren't allowed to settle a deal through ISPs, maybe they will go to court and ask copyright infringers to pay the full penalty. This could actually be worse for copyright infringers...

msbarnett 8y ago
Except that in Canada, they can’t take the “infringer” to court without unmasking the IP, which they can only do via a legal battle in court with the ISP. The math doesn’t make that economical unless you’re going after an astonishingly large infringer.
- peeters 8y ago
  I don't think it requires going to court. This discovery is known as a "Norwich order", and while there's a burden of evidence to prove that the order is justified, it's not a "battle" and the ISP wouldn't be trying to argue against it. There was actually a very recent SCC case [1] between Rogers and a copyright enforcer, where Rogers was appealing a federal court decision that Rogers itself had to bear the cost of fulfilling these orders. If that stood, it would give copyright enforcers carte blanche to pursue copyright suits against minor violators. [1] Commentary here: http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/750214/Media+Entertainment+Law/Who+Foots+The+Bill+NoticeAndNotice+Norwich+Orders+And+Compliance+Costs http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/750214/Media+Entertainment+La...
  - widforss 8y ago
    I don't know about your ISP, but I'm pretty sure my ISP would battle the hell out of anything concerning my privacy. Link in Swedish: https://www.bahnhof.se/press/press-releases/2016/02/24/bahnhof-bade-rattighet-och-skyldighet-att-neka-polisen-uppgifter https://www.bahnhof.se/press/press-releases/2016/02/24/bahnh...
    - kwhitefoot 8y ago
      Yes, but Bahnhof is very much an exception in the world of ISPs. I'm not at all sure I would be able to rely on my ISP, Telenor Norway, to the same degree.
ustolemyname 8y ago
Maximum non-commercial penalty for copyright infringement in Canada is $5000 (about $3700 USD today). I don't think taking people to court has a great cost-benefit ratio.
- leereeves 8y ago
  Is that per infraction? If you're using BitTorrent with multiple people downloading from you, that could turn into serious money quickly.
  - ylbss 8y ago
    Total.
- beached_whale 8y ago
  This is for civil actions, the police can still go after large infringers. But no one wants the circus that the US has with people who cannot afford to defend themselves flooding the court system over copyright infringement.
yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
Actual legal process? The horror.
village-idiot 8y ago
So you’re saying that you prefer extrajudicial copyright proceedings? Seems like an awful idea to me.
- miguelrochefort 8y ago
  I prefer a world where agents can negotiate deals rather than a world where they can't.
  - village-idiot 8y ago
    That’s not a negotiation, that’s a shakedown.
  - mkhalil 8y ago
    Agents CAN DEFINITELY still negotiate a deal...so long they know who they're actually negotiating with. This bill makes sure they target the right people and use due process to actually go after infringers, not pull some sort of scam to throw bait and see who bites.

msbarnett 8y ago

Except that in Canada, they can’t take the “infringer” to court without unmasking the IP, which they can only do via a legal battle in court with the ISP. The math doesn’t make that economical unless you’re going after an astonishingly large infringer.

peeters 8y ago
I don't think it requires going to court. This discovery is known as a "Norwich order", and while there's a burden of evidence to prove that the order is justified, it's not a "battle" and the ISP wouldn't be trying to argue against it. There was actually a very recent SCC case [1] between Rogers and a copyright enforcer, where Rogers was appealing a federal court decision that Rogers itself had to bear the cost of fulfilling these orders. If that stood, it would give copyright enforcers carte blanche to pursue copyright suits against minor violators. [1] Commentary here: http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/750214/Media+Entertainment+Law/Who+Foots+The+Bill+NoticeAndNotice+Norwich+Orders+And+Compliance+Costs http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/750214/Media+Entertainment+La...
- widforss 8y ago
  I don't know about your ISP, but I'm pretty sure my ISP would battle the hell out of anything concerning my privacy. Link in Swedish: https://www.bahnhof.se/press/press-releases/2016/02/24/bahnhof-bade-rattighet-och-skyldighet-att-neka-polisen-uppgifter https://www.bahnhof.se/press/press-releases/2016/02/24/bahnh...
  - kwhitefoot 8y ago
    Yes, but Bahnhof is very much an exception in the world of ISPs. I'm not at all sure I would be able to rely on my ISP, Telenor Norway, to the same degree.

ustolemyname 8y ago

Maximum non-commercial penalty for copyright infringement in Canada is $5000 (about $3700 USD today). I don't think taking people to court has a great cost-benefit ratio.

leereeves 8y ago
Is that per infraction? If you're using BitTorrent with multiple people downloading from you, that could turn into serious money quickly.
- ylbss 8y ago
  Total.
beached_whale 8y ago
This is for civil actions, the police can still go after large infringers. But no one wants the circus that the US has with people who cannot afford to defend themselves flooding the court system over copyright infringement.

yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago

Actual legal process? The horror.

village-idiot 8y ago

So you’re saying that you prefer extrajudicial copyright proceedings? Seems like an awful idea to me.

miguelrochefort 8y ago
I prefer a world where agents can negotiate deals rather than a world where they can't.
- village-idiot 8y ago
  That’s not a negotiation, that’s a shakedown.
- mkhalil 8y ago
  Agents CAN DEFINITELY still negotiate a deal...so long they know who they're actually negotiating with. This bill makes sure they target the right people and use due process to actually go after infringers, not pull some sort of scam to throw bait and see who bites.