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> Most of the incels discussion gives vibe of people who are completely socially isolated - not even really having friends or other regular social group which I

by dictum 8y ago

> Most of the incels discussion gives vibe of people who are completely socially isolated - not even really having friends or other regular social group which I would see as prerequisite to girlfriend. You've stumbled on a circular dependency, but your proposed solution is the equivalent of "just fix it". (The joke in social-anxiety support circles is that all advice boils down to "just be yourself", which turns out to be... unwise.) What makes these men creepy? Is their behavior innate, or acquired in response to other stimuli? If so, from whom? What have they gone through? I have a quibble with the word creepy, similar to the word toxic: there are people who give off creepy vibes, there are people with toxic behaviors, but the words are used in place of more specific, clearer adjectives. Card-carrying incels do exist, but the whole debate overvalues their political/ideological platform, completely ignoring men who go through loneliness, mental health issues, alienation and cultural disconnect but haven't made it into a political meme. Men and women experience all these problems, but they may experience it in different ways. When the subject of incels enters the conversation, everything is reduced to Elliot Rodgers.

watwut 8y ago
I have no idea what made them who they are nor how they interact irl. I know that I always kept away from guys who talk and behave like those on forums, because I see that as red flag for potentially being hit or being insulted in argument or otherwise not being respected. Largely because that is how they they treat and talk abou other people in their lives. Ultimately, in the long term, girlfriend is going to be treated the same. What I am saying here is that my safety and self respect beats his need to have girlfriend. I was not trying to give advice here. I can't and abatract general advice is likely to not fit all that many people even if good. Girlfriend won't and can't fix mental health issue, can't fix alienation nor cultural disconnect. She just can't, the same way boyfriend won't fox the above for a girl.
- fromthestart 8y ago
  You're judging people based on a charicature. Your percieved red flags are nothing of the sort. And, in your continued obliviousness, you miss the fact that these people are alienated by shunning like yours. People are cast off for being "creepy" when this really amounts o ften times to falling outside norms; then you retroactively rationalize your coldness with vague associations of physical danger. If you want to go by stereotypes, people drawn toward inceldom typically don't have the build, coordination, or practice to be violent. And the scary part is how hard it is to shake such an image if you find yourself on the verges of society, exactly because of nonsensical fears like yours. This isn't any better than racism or sexism, except it is socially acceptable because we have recently come to view men as privileged in the west. The bottom line is that you, like much of society, like many in "popular" social circles, are biased by an irrational aversion to otherness, except this particular form of tribalism is socially acceptable.
  - watwut 8y ago
    They were not having weird hobbies nor failed eye contact nor had odd phrasing nor are ugly. The norm talked about here is hating most people, being overly angry over petty issues, crossing into abusive language easily and expecting other people to conform to overly detailed ideas of what exactly they should do. It is not talking about potential partners as about individuals. Hitting other people does not require coordination or build. It requires belief that it is your right to punish partner or uncontrolled anger.
  - empath75 8y ago
    They were repeatedly banned by reddit for idolizing Eliot Rodgers and talking about murdering people. All it takes to be violent is a gun and hate, and they’re full of hate.

by dictum 8y ago

watwut 8y ago

I have no idea what made them who they are nor how they interact irl. I know that I always kept away from guys who talk and behave like those on forums, because I see that as red flag for potentially being hit or being insulted in argument or otherwise not being respected. Largely because that is how they they treat and talk abou other people in their lives. Ultimately, in the long term, girlfriend is going to be treated the same. What I am saying here is that my safety and self respect beats his need to have girlfriend. I was not trying to give advice here. I can't and abatract general advice is likely to not fit all that many people even if good. Girlfriend won't and can't fix mental health issue, can't fix alienation nor cultural disconnect. She just can't, the same way boyfriend won't fox the above for a girl.

fromthestart 8y ago
You're judging people based on a charicature. Your percieved red flags are nothing of the sort. And, in your continued obliviousness, you miss the fact that these people are alienated by shunning like yours. People are cast off for being "creepy" when this really amounts o ften times to falling outside norms; then you retroactively rationalize your coldness with vague associations of physical danger. If you want to go by stereotypes, people drawn toward inceldom typically don't have the build, coordination, or practice to be violent. And the scary part is how hard it is to shake such an image if you find yourself on the verges of society, exactly because of nonsensical fears like yours. This isn't any better than racism or sexism, except it is socially acceptable because we have recently come to view men as privileged in the west. The bottom line is that you, like much of society, like many in "popular" social circles, are biased by an irrational aversion to otherness, except this particular form of tribalism is socially acceptable.
- watwut 8y ago
  They were not having weird hobbies nor failed eye contact nor had odd phrasing nor are ugly. The norm talked about here is hating most people, being overly angry over petty issues, crossing into abusive language easily and expecting other people to conform to overly detailed ideas of what exactly they should do. It is not talking about potential partners as about individuals. Hitting other people does not require coordination or build. It requires belief that it is your right to punish partner or uncontrolled anger.
- empath75 8y ago
  They were repeatedly banned by reddit for idolizing Eliot Rodgers and talking about murdering people. All it takes to be violent is a gun and hate, and they’re full of hate.